It's A TRAP: 10 Years Of Experience vs 10 Years Of The SAME Experience

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hey folks we're going to go to Reddit for a topic and this one's pretty good timing I guess because this is a bit of a theme that came up in terms of some responses for one of my recent videos about uh you know only hiring people because they have X number of years of experience and I had made a comment that like I think that one of the the reasons that that happens is because it ends up being a proxy for like how good your experience is and because it's the internet you know I have to be very careful about how I talk about these things I'm not saying that I think it's a good proxy or it's the only proxy but it is a proxy yes you can absolutely have exceptions to this of course but if you had someone with 5 days of

experience versus 10 years of experience it happens to be a probably a better proxy right but at some point like you know where do you start to say like okay you have a year of experience versus five versus 10 and how that how well that translates who really knows right I I totally get it I don't think it's the best proxy but it is a proxy so this question from Reddit I think is spoton for that conversation and it is they say there's a difference between 10 years of experience and 10 years of the same experience how do I avoid this in my career so um the idea here being that if you have 10 years of experience and it's the exact same thing over and over and over again for 10 years that is perceived to be sort of the the worst of the

two scenarios where if you have 10 years of different experiences you're building up over time pardon me um not only from different experiences but also like the evolution of those experiences So like um you know you could be working in different domains different Technologies but also like kind of leveling up along the way versus just kind of being like stuck at the same spot so I wanted to talk through that I think it's kind of interesting like I said it's relevant uh friendly reminder if you want questions answered leave them Below in the comments um or look for Dev leader which is my main Channel on YouTube and the social media handle I use you can send me a message Nick centino on LinkedIn and I just want to remind people too I am I've been kind of mentioning this over the last little little

bit that I'm absolutely like uh reaching like uh limits of burnout not because of making videos uh so I appreciate people saying hey like take it easy it's you know we'll be here um I do appreciate that the the videos aren't the burnout part it's it's all uh it's all the other stuff going on so um thank you for the consideration uh but it's I I can feel in how I've been talking and stuff like the amount of energy is uh not there so I apologize for that try my best um but I enjoy the these videos and so while I am saying I'm burnt out doing this is enjoyable um and also one more reminder that uh people were asking for stuff to go on Spotify so I've been uploading to Spotify it's a great opportunity if you're like hey I wanted it on

Spotify awesome go catch up on everything I'm uploading because there's tons to go upload and you might as well try and catch up on some of the stuff from the earlier days of code commute but with that said 10 years of experience and 10 years of the same experience so when I was thinking about this the first thing that came to mind is that I wanted to talk about 10 years of the same experience is not necessarily being like such a bad thing so if we start on one end of the spectrum the way that I'm perceiving this at least 10 years of the exact same experience I would say is probably not good for for advancement and just to kind of get this one out of the way I think the reason for that is like when it's the exact same experience over and

over and over again um the argument because I try to look at things from different angles right like okay like what is good about that well you're probably pretty good at that exact thing right The Limited experience that you'd be having from that you're probably very good at it after 10 years very familiar you know it's almost like instinctual 10 years is a long time and if you're doing like the same thing then you're probably going to be pretty good at it but the I think the major drawback is that when we're trying to specifically acknowledge that it's the same domain same language text stack like exact same thing and you're not going deeper on it because that's another argument I want to make after if you're kind of just at the same level of depth and experience and repeating that for 10 years you're

also not like growing or getting more skilled right it it like in a general sense so in my opinion I agree like because this person asking the questions like how do I avoid this right so I would agree that's kind of a dangerous spot to be in um I will kind of come back to like my thoughts around preventing it I kind of just wanted to talk through like three categories first the next sort of level of that though I don't think is as bad it's not something that I would necessarily recommend but I think that this is a path for many people and it's like to be doing the same type of thing so maybe it's the same domain maybe it is the same text stack or language and making sure that you are like going deep on it right so the difference here

is that it's the same sort of thing but the amount of like um expertise that you're building and ability to go deep is significant and this is where I think when we have conversations about this kind of stuff this is almost like specializing um now generally and this is kind of like the next part coming up is like generally I wouldn't advise personally like just going super specialized on one very specific thing so spending 10 years just head down going super deep into into something and not coming up for air it's not my recommendation because um I I do think that from a I don't know if I want to call it job security um employability job security opportunities like to me that's kind of risky I think maybe the word I want to use is like I think it limits your opportunities um I

think that's maybe a like a positive framing like opportunities not like uh you know uh you're going to be fired and you can't get other jobs but I think it limits the opportunities of where you can move the the reason that I think this spot is better to be than the first sort of part of the spectrum I was saying is that you can build up significant expertise by hyperfocusing on a particular area that may mean that there are opportunities for you to really highlight that experience um so I think for some individuals this might be something where you're like hey I have a very specific set of skills and if I go looking for those very specific opportunities they going to really capitalize on this so yes like maybe it works out really well in terms of pay uh in terms of your employability

but I think that it's like it's narrowing what you're able to do and for me that's probably one of the reasons why I wouldn't really recommend it to people right I don't think there's anything wrong with building expertise in an area but when it becomes like the only thing you can do that's when I think it's kind of a kind of risky um and like total transparency I would even say for myself right so as a like my career has been as an engineering manager so I've been doing that for like 12 and a half years um but in terms of a developer I would say like I've built software for different platforms I've used other languages but like I primarily built stuff in C so like I am hyperfocused in building with C because that something I'm comfortable with and based on how I

build things and when I need to build things it's a convenient tool for me to use now I acknowledge it's not the best thing to use I acknowledge that if I had spent other like more time building other languages then I would probably gravitate towards like arguably better suited languages or Frameworks for uh the task at hand but because I am so proficient in C for me it becomes a better tool if that makes sense it's almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy right like I keep using it so it becomes a better tool to use I don't I don't work with other stuff and then therefore it's a harder tool for me to use um so I'm saying that because I am kind of in that example from a developer perspective this is not really my career uh it's my my hobby outside of work now

that's how I started my career was in you know actually building the software I did that for you know the first eight years as a manager even but the last five years or like four and a half years at Microsoft like I don't write code at work I write code every day outside of work so because it's my own stuff I can go build and c and I'm okay with it but the next one sort of next part of this spectrum that I want to talk about is I think what I would try to recommend people do there's different kind of different organiz like uh ways that people organize and categorize this kind of thing uh but it's to have more more breadth and still have some depth you'll hear this called like t-shaped developer because you have the breadth and then you have depth

there's people what are they people have called it like other things to basically just indicate that that you have more than one sort of thing that you specialize in so you have more vertical lines whatever shape you want that to be a piie shaped developer in you get like the you know the pi symbol you know what I'm talking about um so I think that there's you know you can classify that that however you want whatever letter or symbol you want that to be but the idea being that you build up some broader expertise as well right you don't have to go to like the absolute limit of some technology or language and you can still spend time building up expertise in other areas other domains even right so if you're working in finance and you want to spend time working in I don't know

like uh some sort of SAS service and then you want to go do like mobile development like being able to move around into different domains I think is uh interesting just for different experiences different Siz companies so when I think about a t-shaped developer and getting that breadth part not just going super deep I'm just thinking about getting more broad range of experiences in general now I'm not saying become a horizontal line where you like pick a programming language for the day try it out and then every day you do something completely different and never build expertise maybe that's the far end of of this but I would highly not advise that uh but certainly something kind of like a t-shape and I think that's because again you get some more exposure um you have something that you can build like a decent amount of

expertise in or a couple of things where you're like hey I like feel pretty darn confident about this I spent a lot of time doing it it's very familiar I can you know be effective and work fast but at the same time it's not like you've sacrificed being able to kind of move into some other areas so I like that again for just increasing the surface area of opportunities um and I should mention too that personally I think that well I'll kind of touch on this a little bit more but at least at least in terms of having different perspec Ives on things I would say like there's a huge benefit to that even you know you could take something as simple as knowing different programming languages there are there are aspects to the programming languages that if you using them you'll start to see

like oh like this language is more intuitive for this or like there's a lot more support for that um as a simple example and just having these as experiences to be able to draw upon can give you different perspective so um yeah if we kind of look at it on that Spectrum on one side you have like doing the ex it's like a a DOT shaped developer right same exact thing not going deep on anything then you have someone who's basically a vertical line where they just go super deep on something then I would say you have something like a t-shaped developer where you have some breadth and some depth and then at the far end of the spectrum you have like a horizontal line which is like just touching a little bit of everything um so that's how I'm kind of looking at this

for framing I tried to give you some what what I might call it pros and cons to those things but ultimately something like a t-shape I think is good um now this person was say how do I avoid that and so what I wanted to touch on for this part is like this is actually something that I talked about in different ways and I like what's a good way to put this I almost like I struggle with it personally and not because conceptually I don't agreee with it I just told you my opinion like I think it's good to have these different experiences but I struggle with it personally because it's uncomfortable that might sound weird like it's uncomfortable because I think that it requires that you have change and change can be uncomfortable right what ends up happening for a lot of us is

that I think this is kind of like a normal human thing I'm calling it normal I don't know if it's normal it seems like makes sense that it would be normal to me but we don't like being uncomfortable like generally right like we kind of get ourselves into a position where we're like hey like things feel good it's comfortable right whether in that's I'm not just saying for work this is like in anything right like you get into bed you want to be comfortable like it's anything uh we don't like strenuous things because we want to be comfortable um so the idea though is that if you want to to be kind of getting these opportunities it's going to involve getting uncomfortable now for some people that might be something that is placed upon them they're they kind of just end up finding them themselves

in these situations naturally where hey like you're exposed to something new like go do it Go learn it and other people are more proactive in chasing this kind of thing I'm certainly not in the second category I I genuinely wish I was but it's almost like I I know I need to or I know I want to or I know I should want to I guess is how I would put it but um something it's it's either like I start becoming complacent over time or the fact that I'm a little bit more conservative and I'm like kind of nervous to take risks that I naturally don't gravitate towards that and I I think that's bad personally like I I don't like the idea of being complacent and getting comfortable um I've written articles about this I've done live streams on it and I've said like

one of my biggest fears is like becoming complacent and not realizing it so I really don't like that idea and I don't mean fear like I'm phobic of it like I you know have irrational like panic attacks about it but I mean I don't the reason it makes me like fearful or nervous if you will or anxious about it is like that kind of thing I think can sneak up over time like almost by definition right it takes some time to get comfortable odds are I'm not going to like try something new and be like oh like yes day day one first attempt this is the dream this is comfortable it's probably like takes some time and then you get settled into this and you're like things are just good they're comfy and it makes me nervous because I don't know how much time would

go by before I'm like oh like I've been I'm starting to turn into the dot sh developer right like that's what makes me nervous is that I'm not growing and I'm not getting these other opportunities so for me this is like an important thing and um I'm trying to be transparent that like I don't feel like I have the solutions that work for me on this um it's something that I've shared before though where at least in my career I have been the person who has found themselves like kind of being put into these positions where I go oh like this is kind of scary like this is new this is where you'll have impostor syndrome and stuff potentially kick in because it might be a new domain but like I don't know you should still have all the skills to do it like you

know someone really trusted that you have all the skills to do it they believe in you they have the proof they need and then you're like I don't know if I can do this um happens to me with like new engineering teams right I switch teams to go manage them and I'm like I've been doing this for years like I'm not saying I'm the best engineering manager I'm always trying to improve but it's not my first rodeo so like I I know what I'm doing but it's new it gets scary it's like it's uncomfortable and I think that's the reality though so I've been fortunate in my career that I have been put into these positions because otherwise they would be hard to take and the last okay no maybe two in the last year approximately maybe a little bit longer there have been two

scenarios that I can think of where I was like proactively like I'm gonna I'm doing this like this is going to be uncomfortable but I got to do it and one was switching teams at Microsoft so again I'm I'm giving you some examples because I want to try and circle back to what this person was asking which is like how do like what do you recommend right so for me there was an opportunity to switch teams B on some other stuff that was going on I just remember thinking like this opportunity is presenting itself and like something in me was like it would be stupid to not consider this but I would not have gone completely out of my way to go like to go do that it's like there was an opportunity otherwise I don't know right like it's not it's not natural for

me to go like seek out being uncomfortable so that was one thing where the opportunity came up and I was like oh like I don't know if I would say it's a sign but it was like Hey I'm actually acknowledging that there's this situation that I should capitalize on like this is going to be uncomfortable as hell switching teams like for me personally switching teams as a manager is like that is an absolute reset in terms of building up experience like building up your respect and your trust with people on the team it's going to be all new people I'm not coding anymore so every time I switch teams the time it takes for me to build up some level of tech uh technical expertise is tremendous it's from I feel like it's a lot faster if you're writing the code because you get to

see every piece but as a manager it's like I'm I'm zoomed out so um yeah like I had that opportunity and then another one is the current project that I'm I'm trying to drive right now and again this was an opportunity put in front of me and I remember being like hey like opportunity and it's going to be uncomfortable as hell do it like again I don't I wouldn't say it's a sign but it was like I have awareness that I have told myself in my career every time I do these uncomfortable things these big changes I feel like I have a tremendous amount of growth now full transparency that second one that I'm talking about is the sole reason that I am completely burnt out right now completely so it comes at a cost I'm no stranger to having to work a ton I

worked at a startup for eight years like I push my limits all the time and everything I'm doing for the work like outside of work right I write create courses I do like over 10 YouTube videos a week like I'm I'm building a sass on the side like I'm always doing stuff but I know that this project that I'm doing is the thing that kind of push me to the limit of burnout but I also know like I'm not here to complain about that I also know that by going through this I can confidently say like with a 100% confidence that while working through this project I have learned more than I ever would have on the team that I'm on than doing anything else like this is the thing that's forcing learning at the most rapid Pace I could do it so it's not

like you know a cry Fest like oh my manager gave me hard work and I hate it and like I'm so like you know I'm the victim of of the system no like I opportunity came up I was like I should do this I know it's going to be hard I know it's going to be uncomfortable let's go right and again when I talk about being burnt out right now I know that there's an end to the project some people might not feel comfortable with that kind of thing they would say hey like if I know that I'm gonna like I would opt into a project where I might face some burnout then might say screw that and it's not for me to say that's good or bad like that's you're you're entirely you know welcome to make your own decisions as am I so

I acknowledge that this might be something that was going to be very hard for me so my recommendation to people is like I I think it's important you understand for yourself and again I think a lot of things are on different spectrums here so are you the kind of person that naturally is going to look for new challenges like are you asking your boss like hey like this was a cool project but like I'm ready for the next thing I want to try something different are you the kind of person that even when opportunities are presented to you you're like M like not for me like want to avoid like it's it's uncomfortable because it's different like where do you where do you fit on that because in order for me to offer my advice on this topic of like not being stuck I think

that it's tremendously important that you understand that because that's how you take action if you're you're the kind of person who is so gung-ho about taking any opportunity you can at some point that might not be good maybe you're not getting enough experience in one particular area perhaps right now I think for most people like I would probably ER on the side of that if these opportunities are coming up but if you're actively seeking out new opportunities all the time and never you know building some experience might be something to be aware of I suspect most people are probably not on that end and maybe they're interested in moving more that direction like hey it would be good if I can work on different projects or different Technologies but the sort of the level of discomfort that you would have to like have is maybe

too much for people to take action it's like act activation energy is maybe the best way I can describe that right you see the benefit but you're like okay so there's a new project I could go like try to ask my manager about leading but like it's going to be a lot of responsibility am i g to have to pitch that to my manager like am I even ready for that like there's a lot of like upfront effort in the decision that some people might have I'm not saying everyone um or if you're like hey like I'm stagnating at my job I should switch jobs like that's also a lot of work a lot of activation energy so I think that some people eventually just kind of find themselves a little bit trapped so my point with talking through this is like I'm trying to

raise some awareness for you to kind of do that reflection and go how do I fit into that right like if I'm looking for opportunities or I want them if something presented it sorry if something presented itself to me and some scenario comes up like would you actually take that or are you going to be like I don't know and like talk yourself out of it and it's worth mentioning like depending on on how risky that seems or how out there it seems you know maybe maybe you have to figure out like what your comfort level is so my advice is that I think it's important that you look for opportunities so don't wait for people to do that because that's what I'm doing and it's not good right I don't think it's good to wait I think it's important that you're kind of driving

your career and your growth and then on top of that if opportunities are presenting themselves I think that it's important that you give that some serious consideration because it's a good opportunity for you to say is this something that like I'm shying away from it because it's uncomfortable and that's totally fair but maybe that discomfort would be good maybe that would be a good change maybe that's a cool opportunity so just something to think about and uh I think I'll wrap it up there so um just wanted to share some perspective on that thought it was a nice relevant topic based on the uh the years of experience kind of thing terms of like you know being stuck in the same spot so if you got questions leave them below look for Dev leader on social media if you'd like to send me a message

and remember check out Spotify because I'm uploading all the episodes and eventually I'll be caught up and then it'll just be the normal thing to do so thanks so much for watching and I'll see you next time take care