How Should I Talk About My Side Projects in Interviews?

Transcript is auto-generated and may contain errors.

Hey folks, we are going to a submitted question that's also from Reddit, which is pretty cool because that's the connection I've been waiting for. Um, so this individual posted on Reddit and then reached out to see if I could help answer. unfortunately got lost in like Twitter message request hell which is I hate Twitter for this reason but like goes to a message request gets buried I don't see any notification I have to go fish it out so I do apologize for the huge delay to this person um but I think the question is really interesting it's around um it's around projects uh like side projects and getting jobs but usually we talk about this kind of thing like historically on this channel I've made a bunch videos on it and um usually it's around like putting them on your resume, how to highlight them, that kind of thing.

Uh to try and be able to get the interview. And in this person's case, they're not having an issue, well, seemingly they've not had an issue with getting the interviews, which is great, right? So, they're able to advertise them themselves uh sufficiently terms of what what's on their resume, but they're saying during their interviews, they're talking about their side project um and having uh no success with it, as in um they're not landing, you know, once I had the interview, they're not landing the offer. So, I figured we should talk through this. Um I don't have the Reddit post pulled up in front of me, but um trying to recall some parts of it. So um as they walk through it, they're kind of asking others for like, hey, like how have you approached this kind of thing or any input on it? But they talk about a bunch of the things that they've tried with it, right?

So, um I believe their project has something to do with email and um you know the I think the fact that they were getting you know interviews with a project like that on their resume is is telling that it's probably a pretty decent project to be able to cover. And other people in the comments were actually saying hey like I don't think there's anything wrong with this project in terms of like a you know an example to to highlight. So uh a lot of positive feedback even from others around the project selection. Um so they talk very you know briefly about just like this project high level but then they go on to say like here's a list of things that I I try to make sure that I can touch on when I'm talking about my project.

Um, and that's the thing that I don't have directly in front of me to like read out to you, but um, my opinion on that is that they had a really good list of different things to cover. So, um, it's not as if they started talking about their project and they were like, "Hey, it's a thing that sends email and like it was pretty fun to build." like they they have um seemingly they have some sense of like the different things that they want to make sure that they can go over. So like why they were making uh certain design decisions, technology selection, different things like that. And so I just wanted to talk through this. Oh my goodness, it's so hot in here all of a sudden. What's going on? Um, I wanted to talk through this because usually we only see it from like the the resume side.

And one of the first things that I wanted to make sure we could talk about in this video is that like um this is going to sound maybe kind of I don't know like lame or shitty or something, but I I honestly feel like this person could just be experiencing bad luck. And like, well, Nick, what does bad luck mean in this sense? Like, you know, if this person's doing all of these things correctly, if they are, um, like what does luck have to do with any of it? And the luck part is like it's really, um, I feel like it's very difficult to see as you're going through interviews, um, if you're being rejected because it feels personal, right? So, if you're interviewing and you're like, "Okay, I did my coding round and I nailed it." And then I did my system design round and I nailed it.

And then you have like behavioral interview rounds and you're like, "Man, those conversations went so good." And they got to ask me about my project. And then when we got to talk about my project, I felt like I crushed it because I got to talk about these things that I love to do and they're interesting. Like, you could go through interview rounds and feel like, "Hell yeah, this was awesome." and you literally represented yourself the best way that you think that you could and people seemed interested, right? Um the luck part or the bad luck part is that like someone else or multiple people may have also been able to do that and they happen to have better experience. And the like the the big challenge here is like that does not mean that like you are bad or that you that you could have you know done a better job in the interview.

It literally could just come down to like different experiences that people had and they as a result they happen to be a better fit for the role, right? Like we what we don't know in these situations is like how how close it actually was when people were kind of going through the candidates like maybe people were like oh man like I really don't know between these two and like it happened to they happened to not go with you right so um I realize that that seems like like crappy because then all of a sudden it kind of feels like well we're not in control and unfortunately yeah like you can control as much as you you can control But that's it, right? You you aren't sitting in the decision-m room for yourself. Um, you won't know all of the exact conversations and feedback, unfortunately, but what you can control is the stuff that's uh sort of in your power, right?

So, in situations like this, I realize that it's so easy to be discouraged because you're like, man, like I've been, you know, trying everything. I've been every time I feel like I'm improving and like guaranteed you are, right? Like guaranteed that you are, which is great, but it it really feels crappy when you keep putting in the effort and like the result is that like you're just not yet there. And it's like the the point I'm trying to get across is that like what when we go through interview rounds if there's other candidates like that parts outside of our control. Okay. So the sort of example outside of um of tech and interviewing and stuff like that is like um from like a I used to to bodybuild right and like I didn't I only competed once and I I sort of retired from bodybuilding

before going to do another pair of shows and um one of the things that I like about bodybuilding is because I'm not a competitive person naturally is that in bodybuilding Literally the only thing that you can control is you and you have to control all the parts of you, right? Like you can't cheat on your diet. You have to be getting enough rest. You have to be training hard. But that's you. Like you don't have any influence over anyone else. And that means that when it comes time for show day, you could literally have done everything perfectly for you. Okay? and and that's awesome and you can show up and be the best that you've ever been in your life and you should be extremely proud of that. It also means that there's other people that show up and you know they they're on their own path, right?

you guys are completely on different paths and they might have shown up that day and the way that they perform, you know, how how dieted down they got um their posing abilities and all that, like that's not in your control. And they might happen to do better based on what judges are looking for. And even if you don't win, it it's it doesn't mean like, oh, therefore, you're Um, does it mean that there's nothing to improve? No. Like, you can always improve. But if you've shown up and done your best that you've ever done, like you should be proud of that. And I think that it's so easy in like in these interview loops and like like searching for jobs to feel so discouraged because like at least with a bodybuilding show, you can get pictures and stuff and be like, "Wow." like look at what I did with an interview.

You're kind of like, wow, okay, I got I did my seven rounds at a big tech company and then they I still didn't get it even though I thought I, you know, did a perfect job. So, I'm just I'm trying to let you know that like I think a big factor of this is that yeah, you should be taking uh feedback or trying to figure out feedback and making improvements. And I realize a ton of you are and I think that's amazing and really good and you should. At the end of the day, other people can show up for the interviews and they might happen to be a better fit and that does not mean that you should feel bad about yourself. I realize it's frustrating though. Okay, let me get a sip of water. We're going to talk a little bit more about the project side of things because um I want to talk about how you can maybe navigate that during an interview.

Okay. So when I am trying to talk through interviews, one of the major things that I like sort of putting in people's minds is like it's really important to try and understand what the interviewer is interested in. Okay? And some interviewers just like I don't know like it's not it's not their responsibility or there's no rule where they have to but um some interviewers aren't totally clear about what they're after and I think that that can leave a lot of opportunity for um I don't know like misalignment or uh inability to communicate what they are interested in and it's like the the more vague they are the trickier that can be of course. So, this guy's going to try to pull out in front of me. Don't do that. Um, so for example, like, uh, when we talk about behavioral interview questions, I've always said, hey, like try to make sure that you understand what the interviewer is asking you.

Because if it's a behavioral interview and they're like, hey, tell me about a project you worked on where there was like interpersonal conflict, they're they're focused on the conflict part. If you spend all of your time talking about like technology, answering a question like that, you're kind of missing the mark for what they're interested in. Unfortunately, for this person that submitted this question, the the list of things that they try to talk about, I think, is a very good list. So number one I would say is if someone's bringing up a project in your in your interview and asking you about it, um if you feel like you have tons to say about it and you're like, "Oh man, like I got to cover XYZ." Um and like it's almost overwhelming, but you're kind of like, "Okay, I'm going to dive into this." If you're not totally sure, I would just take a moment in the very beginning and say, "Hey, I'd love to talk about Project ABC.

Um, I have a lot of different, you know, things I could be saying about it. Uh, is there anything in particular that you wanted me to focus on? Okay. Um, this could be a super subjective thing because maybe the person, maybe you're at like a small company, I'm just making this up as an example, okay? Maybe you're at a small company that you're interviewing for and um and they're actually very interested in seeing like that you can kind of think like someone who understands uh what it's like to be at a small company and how we have to be prioritizing like everything is about how do we listen to the user? How do we iterate fast? Um and if you seem to have like a business mind for it, right? because that could be really helpful if you're hyperfocused on, you know, the perfect code base like for some small companies that might be like, dude, like that's not we need to move faster than that, right?

So depending on the person interviewing you, they might be looking for a different kind of thing to focus on. And so if you ask them and try to get some clarity, um they might say, "Hey, I'm kind of curious like walk me through how you made these design decisions or like how did you in this case, you know, you're talking about um building a product, you know, was this something that you were, you know, interested in getting some users for? How did you do like your sort of market research for that?" Right? That's not like a common thing you might get asked as a developer, but the person who's interviewing you might be interested in understanding that. So, I think taking a moment at the beginning to ask about that is helpful. Um, I really think if you're a more junior developer, like a I think one of the I don't want to say bulletproof cuz nothing's like a guarantee, but I think one really awesome opportunity to try and focus on is like learning.

Okay, so let me get over one more lane here. A lot of the time as more junior developers, like one of the goals of having, you know, side projects and stuff to showcase on a resume is that you don't have all of the other working professional experience that other people might have, right? And that's not expected. Of course, you're you're more junior. That's that's exactly what's expected. But being able to have side projects can be an indicator that you were trying to learn new things, trying to practice, that you are building up experience. So, in my opinion, a really good way to like highlight, you know, um some awesome stuff about being maybe someone who is more junior is that you were interested in learning and that you did learn and you got stuck on things and how you got unstuck. And like I think that to me is more the most interesting part personally.

But again, I'm not every interviewer. It's just one thing that I would really like to be able to talk to people about. So, for example, uh this person if they built something for sending email, um I would love to hear like, hey, like when you were building this, like kind of what was your goal with it, right? And if they were saying, hey, it was to to go get some practice or to go learn about different things, you know, I wanted to learn about sending email. I wanted to to build something in, you know, in C or Java, whatever. Um like cool. Okay. like so you wanted to get some more experience doing that. Um you know why did you decide on you know this uh this email tech and if they might be like hey like I looked at a couple things and this this one seemed popular and I I wanted to try that out cuz it's popular.

Great. Okay. Like I'm not I'm not going to like say oh like you know person didn't evaluate every single email uh text stack. Like that's fine. Um, so tell me like now that you tried out this tech stack, like what were some of the challenges that you got stuck on, right? If if everything that you're talking to me about is it was just perfectly smooth. I'm like, it's not it's almost not interesting. Like that's great that it went smooth, but I want to hear about what you learned about. So if everything went smooth, I still need a way to understand what you learned. Right? When people get stuck on things, it's a really easy way to talk about what you learn because it's like, I was stuck. I had to go do X, Y, or Z to be able to unblock myself and then I had a lesson that came out of that, right?

If everything's smooth, it's not that that's bad or wrong, but I I as the interviewer am looking for what did you learn? So tell me if everything went smooth, like what were your learnings? Right? And it's not that there are zero. It's just that you have to do a little bit more work to kind of call that out. Um, but yeah, learning in particular is like is really what I would want people to try and focus on. Um, specific like lines of code and all that, like I don't really have an interest um if there's collaboration opportunities. I always think that this is such a good way to um a good thing to call out because one of the things especially for new developers, right? If you're more senior and you've worked and have professional work experience, it's less of a still great, but uh it's it's less of a a value ad.

I think for more junior devs that don't have professional work experience, highlighting things that you collaborated on can be huge because one of the types of experience that more junior people don't have is working on teams together, right? You haven't worked professionally in a team. And that might seem like it's a very minimal thing to you. And the reason it's not is because you're working in a shared codebase with other people that have to work on that code. It's not a project you start from scratch. Like you're in a codebase that exists that people have also been working on. Um, other people are going to have questions. You're going to have questions. You're not going to agree on everything. Are there ways that you can highlight some of these things where like you were working with other people? I think that's a huge opportunity. Um, and sometimes it's hard to call out on a resume, right?

You if you mention that you collaborated with other people, like that can be good, but then it might kind of sway people to go like, well, what did this person do versus the team? So, that could be a really good opportunity in the interview conversation to really highlight that. I got a park here at CrossFit. Um yeah, I I honestly think that um with questions like this, there's so many directions that one person can go and uh I think honestly the best way to do it is to take a moment in the beginning, ask the person what they're interested in and try to tailor the conversation that way based on what this person wrote because I am making this video to try and respond to them. I I think that they uh were without knowing how they presented in the conversation, the topics that they were they were mentioning.

Um I think that they've just been kind of unlucky. I think they have a great project if they're highlighting what they learned, if they're talking about different design decisions and things like that. Um you know, I I think that that can be a really awesome way to talk about a project. So, sounds like they had bit of misfortune. So, hope that helps. Um but yeah, if uh any more detail uh please yeah, leave a comment uh for the person that sent this in. Send me another message if you want to ask something more specific. Uh otherwise, yeah, uh comments below or codec community.com, submit anonymously. We'll see you later. Take care.