Not The PIP! Are Developers Toast if on Performance Improvement Plans?

Transcript is auto-generated and may contain errors.

Hey folks, it is Monday evening. I'm just leaving the office. Beep beep. Um, we're going to Reddit for a topic. I think people will like this one. Maybe not. I don't know. It's interesting. I think I think it's on a lot of people's minds with layoffs and stuff. Um the topic is around uh success stories from managers with pips which is a performance improvement plan. And if you're not familiar with the term, um there is a sort of common belief that basically as soon as you hear pip, it just means that you're being uh they're going to be firing you, right? It's like a documented way to fire people and transition them out. And uh it's like maybe statistically that is what the reality is. But um I will be sharing in this video that's like I have used them and they have been successful and I've used them and they've not or sorry I've used them and the person on the other end did not come away with um success.

So I'm going to talk about this kind of stuff. I'm going to keep things extremely generic as much as I can because uh obviously I don't want to talk about any individuals. That's clearly not fair. Uh I'm going to do my best to navigate that and that means that you might see that at some points I'm pausing to think more about how to make something a little bit more abstract. But I hope you can appreciate that. Um a quick reminder for folks if you're new to the channel, this channel is driven all from questions that you submit. Um, so you can leave them below in the comments or message dev leader on social media. Uh, if I don't have questions, I go to Reddit and I find something interesting from experienced devs to talk about. So, let's get into it. Performance improvement plan. So, I think you know stereotypically, yeah, um, basically it gets to a point where probably managers have already made up their mind about someone, there's a problem, whatever.

they probably haven't been doing a good job working through it as a manager just like they're perceiving the person who's not delivering is also not doing a good job and they go ah well guess we better start now and like they start having a conversation to make it official and it's kind of the unfortunate situation which is like there is already an intention but let's document it right so it becomes this documented way to get rid of people and The crappy part about that is like it's called a performance improvement plan. And I think a lot of the time, like I'll just be honest, I feel like a lot of the time managers are probably just being shitty managers, not actually investing into helping grow their employees.

They might just be like, "I'm frustrated by Bob because Bob doesn't do anything or Bob behaves this way or Bob whatever." like there's some thing that you don't like about Bob and it's like okay well what have you done for coaching Bob on this or letting him know and it's like well nothing like Bob should just expect that he know like he needs to do better and it's like well no like no literally your job as an engineering manager is to help enable your employees to do the best work they can and if you're just like expecting that Bob knows like you're just being lazy and you're probably just avoiding hard conversations. Now you have to go do a PIP and you think that's going to solve all your problems. So I feel like unfortunately probably a lot of the time we get into these situations where it's like PIP gets brought up because it's already sort of decided in someone's head that there's no hope which is unfortunate.

Okay, so performance improvement plan. These are not going to look the same everywhere. Um, this is going to be company to company. Um, some places might not even follow a formal process. It's like once there's a formal process in place, it's like, oh no. Like definitely seems like it's a lot more serious, right? How how are you ever expected to recover from a pip kind of thing. Um, so I I feel like there's a lot stacked up against people when it comes to pips. I don't blame people for taking this perspective that once a pip is brought up, it's like it's game over, right? It's just like going to be drawn out kind of way to get you let go. I don't blame people for that perspective. But that's not been and I'm not trying to sit here on like a pedestal and be like that's not how I use them and I'm perfect.

Not at all. Um, but I have tried to use them in the past and I've had um, you know, I've had people that don't come out of successfully from pips, especially early on in my career. I've had people that had some performance challenges. I've actually talked about some of these scenarios earlier on code commute. Some of the really, really early videos I've mentioned this. So I'll talk through high level a couple of scenarios and um in one scenario I had an employee that like from a technical perspective was not really was not really where we needed him to be. So, this is really early on in my management career and kind of a weird situation because I'm like, I don't know what the hell I'm doing, right? I was I started managing people shortly after I graduated university. So, like, could I write software? Yeah.

They put me into like a management role because they were it's a startup and they're like, you seem to be able to talk to the engineers as an engineer like do you want to try doing this? So sure, right? Like stereotypical managers don't get any training. So having an employee that like wasn't performing was very like a uncomfortable news situation for me cuz I'm like, "Oh man, like I don't know anything about this." So this was a set like I remember my HR leader like kind of walking me through that this is what we call a PIP. This is what we're going to try to do. But even with her helping me, she was giving me guidance. She wasn't like, "Okay, here's how we're going to get this guy fired and like, you know, we just got to document it and then we can get him out of here." Like, again, I I keep going back to uh my HR leader in these videos and realizing like she was pretty like instrumental in my career.

Um because even early on in a situation like that, it wasn't about how do we get this person fired cuz we'll just trust what you're saying, engineering manager. Like they must suck and like we just got to get rid of them. It was very much like well like how do we help this person grow? Oh, come on, man. Sorry, I had to move over a lane there and someone was being a big old dummy. There's a AMG GLE 53 in front of me. Looks very nice for a little SUV. Say little SUV. It's not really that little, but I bet it sounds good. But we can't hear it over this car. So anyway, so HR leader was very much like we're like we're setting this up to be able to make sure that we can help this individual. So okay like what what are the challenges that you're observing?

Have you talked to him about these challenges? Does he recognize them? And so it's like okay like you know got to have first by start got to start first by having the conversation like raise awareness like okay like you know notice that you seem to be struggling on some of these things like can you walk me through like from your perspective like what you're observing right and um basically came down to like admitting there was some skill challenges like hey like you spend a lot of time on this not totally familiar um okay well cool like what's a plan for this Right. So, unfortunately with this kind of stuff, I feel like I was probably more generic than I should have been. Like advice was like, well, you should read more articles and like do some at home stuff to go scale up. And I don't feel like it was like bad advice, but I feel like it was just kind of generic, right?

I think at this point in my career, I didn't really understand coaching very well. right? It was just like, let me put some stuff in front of you and hope that you go do it. And um so, you know, I worked with this individual over a little I can't remember the exact period of time, but over a period of time because that's another thing that I talked to my my HR leader about was like, it's there's got to be some Oh my god, this person's flying. Lady, chill out. Holy cow. um is nuts. you got to have some time limit for it because we want to be able to see if they're they're improving because if they're not then we do have to make sure that we can say okay like this isn't working let's move on right so um I remember meeting with this

person on a regular cadence talking about things like seeing if they're improving and the really difficult part was like it sucks man it's like I had like I have to be the gauge of that And it's like I'm friends with this person, right? Like I'm their manager, but we're a small startup, so like we're all friends. And uh yeah, man, it's hard. Um I know I know obviously more difficult for the person that was let go, but those conversations suck. they absolutely suck. There's nothing good about conversations like that at all. Um, so the, you know, that that was an example of like putting someone onto a PIP where it was skill-based. Like I said, early on in my career, I probably didn't do a great job of coaching them. I feel like today I could do a much better job. Do I think it would have changed anything?

Not entirely sure. So, I don't mean to like say, "Well, today I could help this person so much better and never would have happened." Like, I don't necessarily think so. But I I feel like I could have done a better job at least. Um, one thing I will say is that anytime, this is a good segue into the next one. anytime this kind of thing has happened, I feel like um we end up saying, you know what, that was the right decision. it it becomes like pretty obvious like okay for for someone who was like a who wasn't skilled up it was like yeah we're down a person they're not on the team but like we actually realize that like there's less sort of uh I don't know a good way to say this this sort I don't want to say burden cuz that sounds terrible less less burden on the team for for kind of keeping this person around uh or more clar ity around what's going on.

It's not like we're one person's kind of like, man, what's going on? Like, why isn't this work getting done? Right? So, just more it it's it's obviously a better spot to be in. It's just like a hard it's hard. I you know, I don't think I will ever experience my life having to let someone go and being like, "Yeah, that was the best." Like, it's such a shitty conversation. Next one. Um, this was less about a skill issue and more about a um, in my opinion I'd call it like a sort of like sort of focus sort of a focus issue. And I don't mean like distracted and can't get their work done. I mean they're just like working on like whatever they want and that kind of focus. And so again, support from my HR leader to navigate this. And it was like, look, you know, we're having we're setting up these commitments that we have for our product like doing sprints and pretty routinely.

It's like you you end up going off on your own and just doing other things. And trying to make it known like we we just need some structure here. like we're trying to organize this work because we're building a product together and there just isn't capacity for like random stuff getting done. It might like maybe your code is good. Like it's not even a question of that. It's just like that's not it's not how we're prioritizing things. So by going off and doing random stuff, you're actually like you're actually holding us back by doing that. You're not being part of the team. So had to navigate those conversations. I think it was again hard conversation to have but um set up some some clarity around this. Right. This was much less like there was not a skill issue. It wasn't like okay like let's see if you're getting better with your um your code reviews and stuff like that.

It was more just like, you know, as time's going by, are you sticking to the plan? And unfortunately, that just like wasn't the case even after conversations, right? So, in terms of like a structured pip, this one was a little bit a little bit more fluid, I would say. um it wasn't like you know as uh as rigid and that one also did not work out. The person sort of didn't change their their mentality around it. Now I will say um like it's hard to talk about but I I remember that person being let go and like that was again hard conversation afterwards. We're like yeah that was the right thing to do. And the reason I said this was an interesting segue is because and I've talked about this on code he made years later I ended up running into this guy and um and thinking like oh my god like we're we're out in the wild right?

Like not actually in the wild like the wilderness but like it's not not a work setting. we don't work together and like I'm the guy that that fired him and he's probably wants to kill me like hates me. Like I why wouldn't he, right? Because you know I'm I'm the guy who had to make that decision. I'm sure he hates my guts. And I remember um he talked to me. He came up and talked to me and he was actually like I realized shortly after he's like basically my neighbor but he he said like hey I just wanted to mention like it was really hard at that time but he was like that was actually like I needed that. He was like that was actually a really good decision for me like sorry good decision that impacted me in a positive way. I don't I'm not quoting him directly.

It was years ago. Um, but he was basically saying like it worked out well for him, right? He was like that just wasn't a good spot for me to be and like in hindsight like kind of like it all happened for a reason and like was a good reason. So, uh I'm sure at the time I'm sure he was pissed, right? I I can't imagine being on the other side of that. I'm sure he was very upset and um yeah, just just wanted to mention that like even for people on like a performance improvement plan or something else that they might even acknowledge like might not be the right spot for them. Okay. So, for a success story, I've worked with an employee where um they were basically put into this situation where they were underperforming.

And uh I think for a lot of people especially more junior I think for a lot of people there can be like this under like I don't know like uh milestones and like expectations around how long things should take and asking questions getting unblock. I feel like there's a whole like class of things that they take a while to learn. Sometimes people get them like pretty quick, right? They're like, "This seems like common sense to me. I'm not saying it is to everyone, but seems like common sense to me." And like, "Okay, like I'll navigate this." And I think other people instead of being proactive in navigating those types of things, they're like, "I'm blocked on something. I guess I'll wait." Or like, I I'm not sure which one of these to do, so I will let that sort of paralyze my decision-m and kind of stay stuck.

or I'm wrapping up my work, but like I don't know what my next work is, so I'll just be quiet until someone tells me. Like there's a there's just something about like kind of getting into the groove of just being a productive member of the team. Like I said, I find that some people get it right away. It's very obvious, right? And other people, not like they're malicious. I don't mean to say that they're malicious or they're bad people or they're crappy employees, but I feel like there's just a it seems to be a bit of a theme where there's some people that are like that and they just need a little bit more guidance and structure and then once they have that, I think that they get some momentum from it because they're they're just new. Okay, so you can disagree with that. I'm just saying that's some like a trend that I've observed.

Maybe I'm oversimplifying it. I don't know. But for this individual, they were put into a situation where they're underperforming because I I think a lot of this and um I remember that when I was working with this individual, they were from my perspective, they were definitely like turning things around because I could see that they were being like proactive, that they were being eager, right? So I I think that this is a key ingredient when it comes to performance improvement plans. So the other ones that I told you about so far, okay, those ones, those individuals, I don't want to say they didn't care, but when I reflect on it, I don't think that they were like invested into it. Maybe they didn't think I was. I don't know. But it wasn't a matter of like I certainly wasn't of the mindset, oh, this is just the the way that we get them fired.

It was like, no, like we got to help this person get better. And for this individual that I'm talking about in the in this situation now, it's like I could tell that they were like, I really just want to do a better job. I just want to do a better job. I just need the right direction and like I'm here for it. And my personal opinion is that when someone has a mindset like that, like I will do from my perspective as an engineering manager whatever the hell I can to help them because it's way different if someone doesn't give a And I'm not suggesting the first two people that I was referring to didn't give a Not what I'm trying to suggest.

But if someone isn't putting in the effort or initiative to try and drive change after we're talking about it or asking for clarity, like they're not trying to stay on top of it, I'm like, I'm going to keep bringing it up, trying to raise awareness, like this is a serious thing. But if they're not putting in any effort at some point it's like I don't know man I can't do it for you right I can't but when someone is like very much like okay like you know what's what's the next thing I have to focus on like how am I doing on this can I make it better like being proactive trying to like be aware of this it's uh there's no way I'm going to sit back and just do nothing about that and like post and be like, if I just like sit back, I don't know, maybe I won't have to worry about this person who was an underperformer.

Like, that would be ridiculous. So, however much energy they're trying to put into that, from my perspective, I'm like, "Hell yeah." Like, how do I match you? How do I exceed you? How do like I want to be putting the effort into that. So if it's skill, if it's prioritization, if it's like situations where people are having some friction with others, like difficulty working, if you're super interested and eager to make positive change, like absolutely hell yeah, I'm working with you on that. And I don't have all the answers. Like not by any means. Right? I'll never have all the answers to everything. I have to accept that. But if someone is putting in the effort, then I'm going to too because that tells me that they're trying to get better. Like why would I not want to help invest into that?

So, I have seen people like in the situation I was describing, this person was able to turn around um sort of get themselves out of like a what I might call like a pip scenario. Again, some of these things are called pips formally. I'm just kind of using it generically, like there was some type of performance improvement plan, whether or not it was carved in stone with that name or not. Buddy, you're not going to pass me on the offramp. Don't be stupid in your Kia van or whatever you're driving. Get out of here. Sorry if you drive a Kia or a van or a Kia van. I just trust you're not stupid like this guy trying to pass me on the offramp. just like it's been a day of driver's man. This morning was brutal. Okay, so look look. He's going to pass me now.

There you go. I hope that light turns red. It's going to turn red for me now. Watch. Cuz guy in front of me is going so slow. Nope. It's green. We lived. We lived to see another day. Um, yeah. So, you know, honestly, with performance improvement plans. I don't I don't know. I don't know about other managers. I never in my life want to go into another conversation where I have to fire someone. But like that's part of it. Like that's part of the role as a manager. The thing that people don't realize sometimes is like unless you've kind of lived through this, if you've worked on a team where someone is like dramatically underperforming, it's uh it's bad. It's bad for the whole team. Like people notice it and then people start questioning the manager. They're like, "You're telling me you don't see this guy or this girl or this person like completely underperforming consistently?" The rest of us see it.

Like, you must be an absolute idiot, right? So, as an engineering manager, it puts you into a weird spot where you're actually losing trust from people that you're managing. They're like, "There's no way that we could keep this person. Like, why is this why is our manager not doing something about this?" So it they're not easy conversations to have when you have to tell someone like, "Look, you got to turn this around here." Okay, Devin, this is for you cuz I can't make a video without saying it as an engineering manager. Rele set the expectations, right? We have to let people know that you're not performing up to standards. Here's why. Here's the explicit information about it. Now, for me, that doesn't mean therefore putting you on a PIP because I plan on firing you.

It means look, if we have to put you on a PIP to help give you some guided performance improvement, we're doing that because like if I'm trying other things and it's not working, we just need to get all the structure we can in place. And at that point, going back to how much effort that people are putting into this, if they're not putting in effort, there's only so much I can do. I can put the opportunities up there. I can try to structure things. I can try to put more of my time in, but it's some point. It's like, look, if I'm putting in more time and effort than you are, I I just I can't turn this around for you. I never want to have to fire someone again, but I know statistically that's going to have to happen in my career, unfortunately. And I know that if it has to happen, it's going to be for a good reason and it's going to help the rest of the team.

And probably, to be totally honest, probably going to help that person. Not in the moment. They're gonna hate me. Nick is going to be the worst person in the world at that point in time, and I don't blame them. But if they're not set up for success in the environment they're put in, and I'm trying everything that I can in my capacity to help, they need a different environment to be in. I hate those conversations. It's not good. So anyway, um you can have success stories for sure, but people have to be motivated to do it. And uh I honest I'm I'm sorry for the people who have shitty bosses, man. Like if the only time you're being presented a PIP is because you know you're being set up to get fired, like I'm I'm sorry. It's the hard part with making like software engineering content is like I can talk to you about how I navigate things, but uh I don't represent every every engineering manager.

So, okay, we'll end it on some good news. I was I got good news today. I was very excited, so I wanted to share it. Um, we do, um, we do like employee engagement surveys, which I have to go look at the numbers for. Um, apparently I was told that my scores are pretty high again, which I wasn't expecting. If you're uh, new to the channel, I had a a very large project that ran for five months that like a lot of people were really stressed out. Um, and I was fully expecting, rightfully so, that um, when these survey results came in that people were like, "My scores are going to be way down." They they might be down. I have to go check. I was on call and missed some of the conversations last week. So, I'll check. But, we had these other scores for like um leader effectiveness.

When I started on the team, I had a a perfect 100% score. And I my manager was like, "Holy crap." He's like, "That's awesome." And he's like, "You know what that means, though?" Like jokingly, he's like, "Score is only going down from there." And I'm like, "You're right. There's there's no way it doesn't go higher than 100%." So, I hear it. Um, but we got the scores um today and I went from 100% to 97%. So my my team that reports to me has sort of uh anonymously like you know submitted survey feedback and I have a 97% effectiveness rating as as their direct engineering leader which I was very happy about. Um it's funny. Oh man. It's funny cuz like uh it's not the kind of thing like on a regular basis you don't talk to people about that kind of stuff. I don't know what this idiot's doing.

Good luck. You're not going to merge in here, buddy. Not like that. Um people don't talk about this kind of stuff like on a regular basis. Um, and I tried my best on that big project, but I kind of had in my mind like I know people are going to be just a really hard project um, for everyone that was involved, but I had in my mind like I I know people are burnt out. I know they're they're not going to be happy about everything. It's some of it's out of my control, but I'm trying my best. But yeah, I uh I was like, "Okay, I got to got to look at the results." And I pulled it up on my my desk at work and I was sitting there and I was like like, "Don't cry." I almost did at the lights. Um yeah, it's uh feels good.

It feels good to be able to help. So there's that. See you next time.