I'm Sick Of Helping My Incompetent Engineering Peer

Transcript is auto-generated and may contain errors.

Hey folks, we're going to head to the Experience Dev subreddit. And this one is similar to one I've talked about recently about uh having a peer employee that is sort of challenging to work with in the sense that they're not uh they don't seem competent, I guess, is the easiest way to put it. So, this Redditor was saying like they got someone on the team that, you know, not only them, but other more senior people on the team have tried helping out for a a long while. Um they said that it basically takes this person like a full full sprint for that person to do the equivalent of like a one to two story point kind of uh you know work item that like an intern could do um in the same amount of time or less.

uh they're they're just trying to draw conclusions or comparison story between you know the the effectiveness of this person and they were saying like if there was anything even slightly more complex this person just can't seem to deliver on it ever. So uh we don't have like the specifics obviously but this is more just trying to paint this picture that this person is really not able to get uh things done. Um, what we don't get in this post is like specifically what people have tried or is it like an engagement thing or is it like a skill thing or is it like what's actually going on just just that the uh the effectiveness of the person and what they're able to deliver is very very low and that seemingly others have tried this uh to help out with this for for quite some time. So, uh, their question is like, should I should I suggest to my manager that this person's put on a PIP or performance improvement plan?

So, like I said, it's similar to what I've talked about uh semi- recently, at least in the past few weeks, where someone was asking about, you know, dealing with a challenging peer and um and like should they talk to their manager about it? It's very similar. Now, I was curious. I'm always curious when I read these and I go to the comments and I'm like, what are like how are people reacting to this? Uh, primarily because it's the internet and it's Reddit and I'm like, there's always going to be some going on because that's that's what Reddit's like. And so I think one of the one of the first ones to respond I actually thought was quite uh quite interesting because they were saying they started by saying like I would never suggest to my manager that someone should be put on a PIP but then they go on to say all of the reasons why they think that they should talk to their manager about it.

And uh and I thought that was a a subtle subtle difference um which I I think is actually important. So I I I really liked that response actually. So the idea was that it's uh it's not really for you to say if that person should be on a PIP, right? Like that's that's something that between that employee and that manager has to get figured out, right? That's that's where that's going. Uh but it's actually very important that you know if you have observations or there's challenges that these do get um you know these do get voiced. And so specifically, this person was saying, "Hey, look, like the reality is if you're just hyperfocusing on they're going to they obviously explain this way better than I'm about to because it's their own words, but the idea was that if it's if you're looking at just what this person's doing, right?

So, you have uh Sally on the team. I I've been saying Bob or Billy or something for all my examples recently. We're going to Sally. If you have Sally on the team and you know Sally's output is only uh seemingly a fraction of what others on the team are able to do. Uh this person was saying like it's not really my business whether or not Sally's output looks like X or Y. uh but more specifically uh if it's if it's having an impact on others as in um it's interfering with you being able to get your work done or the team being able to deliver on time and stuff like that. Um that's where that's more of an issue. Like not and I'm I'm already doing a poor job of this.

Not to suggest that there isn't something that could be improved there, but really it's like if it's not interfering with your ability to get your work done, then that's like not they're trying to say like that's not specifically for you to make a judgment call about. But I do so I and I do agree with this, right? It's like if that's not actually affecting you, then like then that's that, right? Like if you you're saying like, "Hey, I can't uh coach or help this person anymore. Like, I'm kind of out of ideas." Then great. Okay, then that's it. Like you've tried, you can maybe voice that. But um I think the reality though, and this is where like I think the advice or the perspective is is helpful. But if we think about this in practice, I would say that in practice when you have individuals like this, it's it's very rare that having someone like this on the team does not cause an impact to others.

And even just to, you know, right on the surface, it's like if you have someone on the team like this where you're like, "Hey, all of us are, you know, we're all working hard, but it seem I'm just making this up as an example for this person, but it seems like this person's not even trying or it seems like this person's just uh unable to have, you know, remotely close to the same level of uh sort of impact that like this person was saying, even like interns on the team are the at a minimum the impact that's having on people can be morale related, right? It can be very disengaging to to kind of be on your team and be like, man, like what the hell's going on? Like it doesn't really seem fair that we have someone on the team who's just like not contributing, right?

That in terms of like sure, are they are they coming to work? are they showing up to work or whatever? Like, yeah, maybe that looks the same as others, but like if they're not having some type of com in remotely comparable impact, like that can feel really bad for morale. So, to this, you know, what I would say to this person who wrote this comment is like I do agree with that, like the philosophy behind that. I think that totally makes sense. But my my perspective is that I think it's pretty rare that there's there's no uh impact for this kind of thing. Um so I think that's kind of at a minimum. The second part is that like in practice I do think that unless you have everyone on the team kind of working in uh silos which I've actually talked about this uh

again pretty recently that I've actually noticed that a lot of the stuff I do on my current teams like when we get spread very thin the side effect of that is that we we have a lot of little silos and I don't I personally don't like having that. Uh obviously there's a balance between everyone working on something completely different and then you have too many cooks in the kitchen where like the whole team is working on one thing. Like there's a balance but uh I don't like being spread so thin where everyone's got something different. So I do think it's quite you know normal or regular to have teams where you have uh you know certain work streams that are overlapping or you have a handful of people working on a project and they have dependencies with each other. So again I I think that it's quite rare that um you won't have like any kind of impact from this sort of thing especially over longer periods of time.

Now, another angle. I'm again, I'm trying to play this kind of a I'm just trying it out for this video. I'm imagining having a conversation with the person that wrote this this comment. So, those are some of the things I would say. And I think a fair response depending on their stance could be like, hey, look, like maybe they also agree with that, but maybe their point was more around like how you bring this up with your manager. Okay? because I think I think they are suggesting like there is something here to talk about. Uh and maybe the focus is not hey I don't think that Billy's or Sally's pulling their weight like talk about the impact that's being had. And I think that's also an important thing. So if you're going uh into a conversation with your manager on this sort of thing, it's not it's not really helpful.

I mean, I think any type of uh any type of observation I think is helpful as long as people can take that observation as a as a great or with a grain of salt. Um, but uh I think to make it more helpful, it's not just, you know, I think Sally doesn't do enough or uh Sally is, you know, not able to do as much as the intern. like that's not that's not super helpful but like what what's the impact that that's having right so I think some more helpful framing could be like hey uh I you know for my if you talk about it from your own perspective right I've been trying to you know coach and mentor Sally for some time now and I'm actually having some challenges where I'm not seeing any improvements so if I were to like as a manager if I were to hear something like this couple different things I'd want to like dig into, right?

One, if this was the first time I was ever hearing that Sally had some challenges, especially around coaching and uh and mentoring, I'd be like, "Okay, well, what are the things we're trying to help Sally out with that I'm not aware of?" You know, maybe as a manager, I was doing a poor job and didn't realize that Sally had a lot of uh, you know, difficulties in ramping up and focusing on work or whatever it is. So, like that might bring some awareness to me to go focus on some things. Um, I would hope that this person bringing this up to me, it's not been a year and this is the first time they're mentioning it because I would hope if it's early, I can say, "Hey, like, you know, for example, hey, like, yes, okay, so Sally, you're trying to help them with, you know, breaking down complex things or getting unblocked on stuff.

Cool. like let me coach you and help you on coaching and helping Sally. Like let me try to, you know, uh give you some advice on on how to make your coaching more effective. Right? If it's if it's been so long and you're like a year into it or whatever some you know very long time horizon is I feel like there's a lot of missed opportunity already and it's you're trying to switch gears at that point. Like I'm assuming you're already pretty burnt out from trying to help. And so you know I think even in the the other video I was saying try to do this stuff early, right? If you have like perspective to share, try to do it early. But the point in this in this part right now is that it let's focus on like the impact that it's having, right? I am trying to help Sally.

I'm not able to make progress on this. So like basically that's having a negative effect on you because it's taking time. You're getting frustrated that you're not able to make progress on it. Like how is it impacting you? Right. And you might be able to bring into that like, hey, so and so else on the team is is trying this as well, like for awareness, just so you know, like they they're going to need some support on this, too. Um, so that's one angle. Another might be, hey, like instead of focusing as much on the the coaching and mentoring part, it's like, hey, I've been trying to help Sally and stuff, but now we're running into some uh some like road map issues where like we're getting blocked on I have to move over and this truck's got a boat. Come on, buddy. Jeez, look at this boat.

Oh, you can't see it yet. Hopefully I'm Look at this boat coming up. This guy's Look at this thing. This is his little truck pulling it. Um, he probably wouldn't like that I said his truck is little. Um, yeah. So, in the in the second variation of this, it's like now it's impacting our deliverable. So less about the the focus on hey it's consuming my time trying to coach and mentor and I'm kind of getting frustrated and stuck doing this and more about like hey I'm just trying to get my work delivered and like as part of that I'm trying to help Sally get their work uh moved along and like it's it's becoming an issue now where basically you know Sally's inability to get work done is now impacting my ability to deliver despite the fact I am trying to take those steps to to move things along.

And so again, you're talking about the impact that that's having on you. So, um I think trying to transform the conversations into that can be a lot more helpful than um than sometimes how this comes out when people write about it on Reddit or maybe how they're uh if you're venting to your your peers and colleagues. Please don't do that. Um, but it comes out as almost like um I don't know, resentment, right? You're you've been trying to help and it's not working. And the way that you might frame some of the stuff is like, man, like Sally sucks. Sally's dumb. Like uh like can't get anything done. And it's like that's not this is not really helpful. That might be how you feel about it because you're frustrated, but it's just not like a helpful thing. So let's instead try to focus on the impact it's having, you know, the steps that are have been taken and then surface that to the manager to be able to to help navigate that.

Um there can be that this is why this kind of stuff is uh you know many layers of challenging but um there could be many different things going on with that person. And so I don't like it to um I don't say these types of things to like I don't know like almost uh make excuses like especially if you've worked with someone and they hap they do happen to be incompetent or uh they're put into a role where like they're just their their skill level is is just not there. Their skill and experience level, right? And like and maybe you're working with someone where truly their initiative isn't there, right? like they're just it's just not the right role or position for them. I'm not trying to make excuses for for like legitimate situations.

But with that said, I think there are many cases where uh sometimes people don't see what's going on and um that's uh ju I think just because people are complicated, there's there's a there's sometimes things uh going on that aren't uh that aren't very obvious, right? So, could be um I've worked with employees that have been going through mental health things, right? So, they're going through a period where it it is just really challenging. They got stuff going on that's not just like specifically for work and it's affecting all parts of their life. Now, as a manager, that's a challenging situation because I obviously would like to support my employee, but at the same time, like I am responsible for the whole team. So if there's if there are things going on with people that are so impactful that it is bleeding over to having a negative consequence for the rest of the team like that that can make things very difficult to navigate, right?

I need to make sure that employee gets the support they need. Um and that might mean you know further conversations that are not just between uh that person and myself. Maybe it has to be with HR or something else to to figure something out to get them the support they need. Uh it could be people have uh I don't know like I've situations where people's family members are ill and things like this or they need support and like they're just completely completely distracted from things at work. Now the reality is with some of these things they're they're periods of time. They could be extended periods of time, but they're periods of time. And so being able to navigate those and have support for people, I think, is important. Um, but a lot of the time this kind of stuff is private and so people rightfully so on the team don't get that full visibility into what's going on.

So anyway, um my point is like I I think it's important to try not just saying like, hey, someone sucks or whatever else, but more like here's the impact that's being had. We're all trying to operate with best intentions, so surface it and hopefully hopefully there's a positive conversation or some action that can come out of it to to move things in the right direction. So, I thought it was a good first comment on that thread. Um, yeah, let me know your thoughts and if you got questions, leave below in the comments. And otherwise, go to code.com and ask stuff anonymously. Take care.