How To Deal With Underperforming Software Engineering Colleague

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Hey folks, I'm just leaving the office. I have the dreaded heavier than usual traffic on your way home. Says it's going to take an hour drive home, which uh sucks ass for sure. We're going to go to experience dev subreddit for a topic. Um this one is about, how do they phrase it? Um, basically it's a an engineer who has a a co-orker that seems to be underperforming and they are curious about like how to how to continue to bring this up with their manager like the frequency that like you know it seems like it's there's no action being taken. So, for a little bit of context, um just to kind of set the stage for this part in particular, they're saying that, you know, they had they observed this.

It was actually um a senior engineer that like also um corroborated it where they're like, "Yeah, like I've also noticed the same thing." So, now this person's like, "Okay, like I'm not the only one." And uh it seems to be pretty consistent andor repeated. And so they've brought it up with their manager and they were like showing like you know the the number of tickets in Jira or something and how it's all balanced and their their manager was like oh like I didn't realize it was like to that extent and this person's like well I find that kind of weird because you know the senior engineer already talked to them about it blah blah blah. So they're kind of like seems like my manager is like forgetting or like not really doing anything about it. like it seems kind of off. So like what do you do?

Right? because they're now concerned that like if they're working on stuff with this person or within the team, if this person's not pulling their weight and not sort of like you know delivering like their their team members then uh are they in this weird situation where like it also looks like they're doing uh you know the person who wrote the post like they're also doing bad because the whole team is not uh able to perform as well. It's kind of it's a sticky situation, right? Like and depending on how much experience you have or how many companies you've been at, like you may have found yourself in a spot like this, which is uh pretty unfortunate, right? like you're trying to do good work and there's a colleague or something and it just seems like they're not really, you know, they're never present or like if they are reporting status and like updates and stuff like their work's always not making it.

Like people are they always have to pick up the the loose ends to try and get stuff moved over the you know if you're doing sprints like over the uh sort of to meet your sprint commitments. Like it sucks, right? And the biggest problem with this in my opinion is that it's like it's very demotivating. Uh you can have a whole team that gets very disengaged when this kind of behavior is happening. So like I get it. Uh this person's concerned. Now there's a there there's a lot right like we in this particular case we don't know all the details. In other situations we're not going to know all the details. uh this kind of stuff, you can't just like make a blanket statement and say like just do X anytime this scenario happens because it's not it's not going to be the same every time, right?

So, I think one of the comments I saw in response to this like I'm glad they kind of started it off, but they're like um you might not know what's going on behind the scenes, right? And so this makes it really tricky. The the big challenge is that like as like I'm going to kind of speak from the perspective of an engineering manager. Um if you are unaware that someone's not really you know contributing uh that's definitely a gap like on your side as an engineering manager. And I'm not saying that as in like therefore you suck as an engineering manager. Like I can understand where, you know, I've I've felt like very overloaded at different points in time. I know others have as well. Uh you're focused on certain things. You're spread very thin. It might be such that you have someone who is kind of like sneaking under the radar a little bit and they're truly not sort of uh contributing to the same capacity that others are.

And that doesn't necessarily mean it's on purpose, like they're trying to be sneaky. They're trying to be like, you know, pull the wool over your eyes, like they're not going to know and I can just slack off and do nothing. It could be like all sorts of different things. It could be that, right? Someone's like, "Hey man, I get to do nothing and I get paid. Hell yeah." It could be someone's really struggling and they really need help and they don't have a good support system. Like it could be any number of things. And so one as an engineering manager like as much as possible you want to make sure you have a good pulse with the people on your team.

And uh if you're if you're being told about like sort of performance issues that others are observing and you were not at all aware of that, take that as like an opportunity to be like, okay, like how do I got to I'm not saying that like take everything you hear as like absolute fact and it's 100% like the reality, but take that as an opportunity to that if you're caught off guard by that, you might want to think about how you're keeping a pulse on things because perhaps there is a gap. Now, if you have only one person ever that's ever said this and you're like, that doesn't even sound like, you know, that's remotely close to your understanding of things, it's not that that person's 100% wrong or that you're 100% wrong, but that might be worth digging into a little bit further, right?

Um, it might be that whoever is reporting that to you doesn't really have a lot of clarity on something and they're feeling upset about something and that's how they're they're kind of navigating it. Again, I don't like to look at this kind of stuff like people are being malicious or trying to set others up for failure. A lot of the time like this is out of concern and people are trying to do like sometimes it's like to protect themselves or to protect the team and how they approach that might not be what you think is the best way. So just keep that in mind if people are coming to you and they're trying to share this kind of stuff. Um like again face value like you might want to like try to understand this a little bit deeper.

So, it's tricky as an engineering manager because like I said, number one, you you need to make sure that you have a good pulse with the individuals on your team and that does mean that when you're going through periods of time, if you're feeling overloaded and spread too thin, like you might regress in some of these areas, right? And I can I can absolutely say this, you know, with 100% confidence that I have been in situations like this where I'm like trying to stay afloat on all the things that I need to be responsible for. And like when I reflect on things, I'm like, you know what? Like I think there was a bit of a gap there. Um there's times where it's not even like someone was underperforming or something necessarily. It's more like if you were to ask me like what did this person do like during some period of time I might not have great visibility into that and that's for many reasons for me not a good position to be in.

So then I have to really go make sure that I close those gaps. Um right because that could mean maybe they were doing nothing and they need help. Maybe they were doing tons of stuff and I'm not aware of it because I I was too focused on other things that were taking up, you know, uh my priority time and like that's not a good spot to be in. Trying to be transparent about that. I'm just saying that like it can happen. Going to switch lanes here. Oh, this guy's got a trailer. Oh, buddy. Thank you for being the one who pulls out in front of me. Uh, here's where the traffic is. I found it. Um, so in situations like this, like as an engineering manager, you like getting to the root cause I think is important. And so like obviously like I was saying, step one is having observability, right?

So making sure that you understand where people are like where they're at. And then when you're noticing that there's something that feels off, it's not a matter of like therefore person sucks or therefore it must be X, like you actually don't know that. So how do you get that figured out? Does this person need help? How are you going to figure that out? Right? Is it a technical thing? Is it because there's something really uh stressful for them going on at home that you have no visibility into? Right. I've I've had employees that had, you know, sick family members. I've had employees that had sick pets. I've had employees where they have relatives in different parts of the world where it's not very safe. I've had you people that were burnt out from previous roles. All sorts of things. And like if you don't dig into what's going on and you make an assumption, like it could be a very wrong thing.

So again, when you're in a position where you have a lot of trust and respect with the people that you're working for um or working with, sorry. I have found that that pays so many dividends because it's way better for someone to come to me and be like, "Hey, like I am feeling off about this. I'm not feeling like I can focus. I'm like whatever. I want to tell you upfront because I'm concerned about my own like performance or whatever it happens to be, right? Like they're doing this reflection and feeling like I want to tell you this before you might observe something. Uh and like people won't do that if they don't trust you, right? So I would much rather be in a situation like that. put in as much effort as I can to make sure that people trust me, that they can come to me and talk to me like that.

Because if they're just avoiding me and they don't want to share, then I'm like, "Okay, like you like you don't trust me." And that means that if I'm trying to work with you on this stuff, it's going to be really difficult because if you don't trust me, like how do you not believe that I'm trying to help you, right? Like this is the kind of challenge that happens. And then people will um you know as you're trying to coach them through things or give them space to like like hey you need some time off because of whatever is going on like okay like let's make sure we can get your projects and stuff balanced out. Like if people don't trust you they might see that as like a you know that might be like a sneaky or malicious thing you're trying to do. So it's why it's like a fundamental thing to work on.

So, having visibility, trying to get to the root cause of what's going on, and then coaching and working with that person on it, and that's going to be very situational depending on whatever the situation is. Cookie cutters don't work very well. Um, unless you're making cookies. I wouldn't mind a cookie. I had a donut today. But yeah, you don't want to take the exact same approach. Apply it to everyone. it's just a recipe for disaster. So, um what's really difficult and I'm speaking um from like my own personal experience on this kind of stuff is like you want to make sure that you can provide a like a sort of growth path or like recovery path for people where performance is not there that is very clear that gives them an opportunity to succeed.

Because if you're like this is where pips and stuff come up, right, where it's like, yeah, here's your path to like improve and it's like very much set up that we like we don't give a Like try all you want. Like we're basically planning to fire you. I think that's a very ridiculous thing to do. Um, personally, so again, like how like how much time and effort are you going to invest into this person to try and turn things around? And my my lititness test for that is really like I've I don't know if I've said this on like recording, but um like my my philosophy is like I would like to spend as much time and effort as needed so that if I have to sit down in a call to uh unfortunately terminate someone, if I feel like in that conversation there was

anything more I could have done to try and help them turn things around, So I have I literally envision it and I'm like if I feel like I'm like oh I could have done whatever like I I it's kind of like am I going to have regrets like I you know if they are terminated like oh I should have I could have if I feel like that I will still keep doing should like what I could and should do. if I'm reaching the point where I'm like, I've tried like I'm I've exhausted my my options, especially if people aren't um progressing or showing an interest in progressing, then then at least I'm like I've done everything that I possibly can, right? So, that's my lititness test for it. But the challenge with that is that kind of like what I was saying a little bit earlier and and very relevant to this question on Reddit is like when you have other people starting to observe this kind of behavior.

This is where it starts to have a negative effect on the team. And in the very beginning, maybe not much, right? Someone's like, "Hey, like I don't know what's up with this person. like I'm maybe I'm genuinely concerned that they might need some help. It depends where it's coming from, right? Some people might just observe it and get frustrated and they're like, "It's not fair that Billy's not doing anything and I got to do double the work or me and Sally have to do an extra 50% to make up for the work that Billy's not doing." Like, you know, that that can build up resentment over time. Whatever it happens to be, this can have a very negative effect on teams. So for me personally, it's really challenging because I will want to try and invest time and effort into people. And if that's going on in the background where it's like people are noticing that there's like a performance issue or whatever else is going on, then you start getting people asking questions.

Then you start having an impact of the team. Then you have people that start getting disengaged, right? So it's really challenging and for me at some point what I was describing where I'm like hey like if I'm imagining in this having to be in this conversation with this person the other thing that I need to consider is like if the team is starting to like be impacted by this while that's happening they are likely also losing trust in me because they're like this dude doesn't see what's going on. he's not doing anything about it. And I can't tell them, oh, like I'm working with with Joey on this. Um, yes, I know Joey's doing terribly and like, hey, like it's okay. Like I don't No, like I'm I can't do that. That's like more of a personal thing.

Um, but what I can say is like if people are like coming to me and they're like, "Hey, like I have concerns or like this is bothering me or whatever." uh I can let them know that like I acknowledge but I'm not going to give them the details of like oh I structured this awesome performance plan for them. Um there might be like say senior team members where it's like they're noticing some challenges and I'm like hey like yes and um hey like there's some awesome opportunities for you to help coach with this person and on this project whatever like kind of letting people be part of the solution can be something but I'm never going to frame things as like you know like I need to respect someone's privacy. So it does create this weird situation where like because you're not sharing details with people and they don't have full visibility into it.

It's like well are you doing anything about it? So you can't what I'm trying to say is you can't let this stuff go on for so long that it's having a negative impact on the team and then uh that impact is uh more broad than just you know one person not really doing work. when the team culture is like impacted by it, it's um I don't want to say it's too late kind of thing. You can obviously recover, but like it's it's just more problematic to deal with. I got to switch lanes here in this fast lane. So, give me one sec cuz I have to look forwards and backwards at the same time. But we did it. Okay. So, how often's too often? How do you do it? How do you let your manager know? Right. So, um, what's the what's the right way? What's the wrong way?

Um, I would say like personally, I think it's important to raise visibility about things that you see. I feel that way. Uh, I know that I've had employees in the past where they're like they feel like you can tell they feel guilty. They'll preface things or they're like, I don't know. like it's like they they know that they should bring it up or that they like they feel that they need to, but they're at the same time kind of like I don't I don't want to get this person in trouble. I don't want to overstep. Like I don't know. And it's confusing. And that's one of the reasons I want to talk about this is because that feeling of like I think something needs to be said, but like I don't know what kind of consequences happen if I say this, right? like I don't want to say something and then this person gets fired and then like that's that's my fault, right?

Or like I don't want to say something and then my manager thinks that like I'm just a tattletail or like not a team player or whatever. Like whatever the concern happens to be. I've heard many different variations of this. I'm sure at different points in my career I felt the same way where it's like I think something needs to be said, right? Like I have absolutely at different points in my career had a conversation with uh with people in in sort of like leadership positions above me where it's like look we need I think we need to have a conversation about this. I I don't know if you have visibility into what I'm seeing, but like I feel like it's my responsibility to share this and like, you know, the way that I've navigated this stuff in the past is like trying to trying to do it early enough that it's not like things are off the rails.

Because when things are off the rails, it's kind of like if there's something actually wrong that needs to be addressed and you wait till things are off the rails, now you're kind of going to someone to be like, "Hi, like sorry I waited so long, but like you got to go fix this now." Um, so trying to do it early enough, but also with enough sort of like evidence. And when I say evidence, this could be whatever based on your situation that you're kind of dealing with or going through, but like you know, maybe you have someone on the team who's like affecting morale in some ways and being like, "Hey, look, like I've, you know, had multiple reports from colleagues where they've come to talk to me about this kind of thing." You don't even have to say who they are, right?

It's not about like fingerpointing or making, you know, setting other people up for like awkward conversations, but to be like, look, like the the thing that you need to know about is that there's some concern because that's awareness. And I think that's the part that like as a manager, I value that part because I'm not going to be able to see everything all the time, of course. and if there's some awareness that I could benefit from that might mean like okay like I have a coaching opportunity I have to work with this person on so I do think that it's helpful to raise awareness about things right ideally you're working with people or working for people that you do trust that you do respect so if you're like hey look like I just I feel like I have some responsibility to kind of share this you know perspective with you or like let you be aware of it and um like just so you know, right?

And like what you do after that depends on the conversation of course. Uh if someone's like trying to express to you in some way that they're like sure there's awareness like thank you. uh or you know if they need um sort of more insight like is this just a one-off thing or whatever like they might tell you like hey okay like thank you for letting me know um you know I'll find a way to kind of work with this individual on things um they might proactively reach out to you after a period of time and be like hey like have you noticed improvements in this space or you get this kind of situation like this person on Reddit was saying which is like I brought it up and nothing's happening, right? That makes things awkward because now you're like, "Well, I told you. What are we going to do about it?" Right?

Like apparently nothing is what it seems like. So, I think what I would do personally at that point is like if you've already raised awareness and nothing seems to be happening, I would talk about like sort of the impact. So, I would make it less about the person. So, I I wouldn't be like, "Hey, like Joey's still not doing Like, we got to get rid of Joey. Like, when are you going to get rid of Joey?" Like, obviously I'm exaggerating, but like I think that's not the productive angle to the conversation. I think the more productive angle is being like, "Hey, like um you know, I'm I've been feeling kind of like demotivated or disengaged." And I think some of that's stemming from the fact that like I don't feel like we have a really good uh like a balance of work on the team

or something or I've been feeling disengaged because you know I've had a couple of people coming to me and they have some concerns about like balance of things on the team right and again you don't have to use the specific people's names to like throw them under the bus so to speak but like just when you have this conversation like explaining that there is some impact how you're feeling how it's affecting your work. I think that's important because that's the kind of thing that's like you're providing visibility into something because to say like hey Billy is not doing work. I'm just making all sorts of names for these for these individuals. I'm so sorry if uh your name is like one of the names I'm just throwing out there.

um when you're making it about just like you know so and so is not doing work or whatever like it's um I don't know the right way to say this and not because I'm trying to like to not say that like a a bad thing I I don't know I feel like that's not just it's just not super helpful like to to raise awareness of it and raise concern like the first time kind of thing. I I think that is helpful to be like hey like I just something I notice, right? And I think like that's more like I don't know if you see this but just wanted to give you some visibility. I think that can be helpful but I think like what's not super helpful is like hey Billy's still not doing work. Billy's still not doing work. Um, unless unless there is some like um proposed solution or action, right?

Like, hey, I'm just going to make this up. Billy, I I noticed Billy's still not really getting through his work items. And uh I figured like you know if you think Billy needs help like I like you know could volunteer for that or like let me know um the area that you you think Billy seems to be struggling with and like uh maybe I could work with one of the engineers on the team to like help make sure he's supported right like that kind of thing is super helpful or taking the other direction I said which is like talk about the impact on your ability to work effectively. And the reason I say that is like again I'm if you haven't noticed a lot of these videos like I'm thinking through things for like the first time to put them into words.

Um, I I think that trying to transform scenarios to make them about like when they become about you or how they're affecting you or things that you can help with, I feel like that makes the conversation a little bit more, I don't know, like straightforward or something that's actionable. Like saying Billy doesn't do work. It's like well okay like I have as a manager I have to go like confirm this. I have to go like see like where is this actually coming from? I have to dig in. When you say something like I think Billy is struggling a little bit and uh I wanted to check to see if I can find like if I can help or whatever like this is something that you know you're actually proposing some responsibility.

this becomes uh you know the conversation you're having this is actually you could be seen about you right like how can I help when it's hey uh you know I I've been disengaged or kind of struggling a little bit this is again about you your manager can work with you on this right one of the things that might come up in that conversation is like it feels like the workload's not really being balanced okay like kind of dig into it um I don't know I find that like that conversation can be a lot more straightforward And um again, I want to be transparent. Personally, if someone came to me and they were like, you know, the second or third time and they're like, "Billy is still not working." I'm not going to be like mad at that person. I I should have maybe should have said this earlier, but like I don't think that I don't like I don't look at people trying to provide me information with like them doing something wrong.

I very much believe that people act with, you know, they're trying to do like act with best intentions. So if someone's like, you know, Billy's not carrying his weight, I'm so sorry, Billy. Um, and then like they need to bring it up again. I don't look at that like this person's I don't know just like whining or whatever. I I I need to dig into it more. Like there it's obviously coming up because it's affecting them in some way, right? Like let me help me understand that because I can also work with you on some of that if I understand it. Right? So, like, thank you for the visibility if like I will if I need to go work with Billy on some things, I'll go figure that out. But in the meantime, because you know, unless you're actively volunteering to help with Billy cuz you want to be able to help, in the meantime, like how can I work with you to help improve your situation?

Because that's something that you and I can work on, right? Okay. And again, like thank like like thank you for the information. Thank you for the observation. Um again, like I I was kind of hinting at it earlier, saying it earlier that I've had people on my teams historically that are that are like I want I want to bring this to your attention, but like I don't know if I should or if I'm allowed or whatever. And I'm like, of course, like I I look at like my conversations with my employees, like I want that to be a very safe place for them to be able to talk about anything. Um I've had employees say to me like, "Oh, I don't want to talk about that cuz I'm just venting." And I'm like, "But but like if I'm giving you some space to do that, like that's that's fine.

I know that like your goal is not to sit here and just like vent or whatever." And it's the same thing if you're trying to, you know, bring up something where you're like, I'm just trying to raise awareness, but like I don't want to get this person in trouble or whatever. I'm like, it's not I'm not going to like take a note and say like, you know, uh, Sally is trying to get Billy fired, so like Sally's bad. Like, it's not the case. It's just for me, it's just information. It's things for me to follow up on. And I and I do appreciate it. And I just want to make sure that people always feel comfortable that they can do that kind of thing because once people lose that trust or that comfort then like you are just you know more blind to different things that you might not be observing on the team.

So um I do think that like it's uh it's worth resurfacing. I think you have to think about the situation you're in and how you want to approach it. Like let me let me frame it uh a slightly different. If you're this person who's asking about this, right? This is something that's bothering you. Of course, that's why that's why you're bringing this up in the first place. So something about this is bothering you. Like what does what does a path forward look like for you? like what what makes you become less bothered by this? I think that's probably like a helpful reflection. Is it truly just like you want to make sure that your manager is aware? Is it like, hey, look, like awareness isn't enough at this point because like I tried to make you aware and like nothing's happening and it's still having a negative effect on me.

I think you have to understand kind of like where you're at and what you want out of such a conversation. um because that will kind of change like how you might approach it. But yeah, I would I guess what I'm ultimately trying to say is like I wouldn't start being quiet about things. That's actually a fear of mine is that um when leading teams like if you're getting feedback and you have people that that do trust and respect you and they're willing to come to you with stuff. If you don't try to steer things in a direction that's going to improve the team, whatever the situation happens to be, people will start getting quiet. And at different points in my career, I don't need to or want to go into the details uh to explain, but at different points in my career, I have literally had conversations where I've heard engineers say, "It's just not worth speaking up about it anymore." Like some some flavor of that, right?

It's just not worth it. So, like why bother? And to me, that's like one of the scariest things from like a team culture perspective. So, that's what like I'm trying to lean into that because if I think about a scenario like this where someone's not really uh contributing to the same level that others are, I don't want the team to fall quiet and be like, man, like work freaking sucks. It's like I don't like doing this because it's unfair. Uh it bo like I think about this all the time and it bothers me and I'm just disengaged. Like and no one's doing anything about it and this is just like trash. Like that's a scary thing for me because I can imag like being in that situation would be totally to the point where you're like I I don't even want to bring this up because nothing's going to happen, right?

like feels like you don't have a voice about things anymore. It's just a it's a terrible spot to be in. So, that's a fear of mine is that if you start losing that communication channel with your team, your culture just falls apart. I got to yawn. There he is. But anyway, I think that's mostly what I got on this topic. Like I know I repeated myself a lot, but uh I'm just trying to think through trying to put into words some of the thoughts that are kind of going through my head as I as I talk through it. I I thought that it was an important one to go through. Like I said, I because I've had people say to me, don't know if I should or like don't want to, you know, speak out of out of turn or whatever. Like I just I don't believe that people are trying to act malicious when they do that kind of stuff.

So, um I think that's it. So, folks, if you have questions, leave them below in the comments. You can go to codemute.com. You can submit questions anonymously goes to my email and then I can make a video for you. And uh otherwise, you can check out my other YouTube channels. There's Dev Leader where I have programming tutorials specifically in C and leveraging AI tools. We got Dev Leader Path to Tech where I do resume reviews. And then I have the Dev Leader podcast where I interview other software engineers and do a live stream every Monday 700 p.m. Pacific and it's an AMA. So we go over topics that uh are from code commute and then it's because it's an AMA you can ask anything you want and we'll go through it together. So I hope to see you on one of the live streams and if not I will catch you in the next video.

Take care.