Finding Alignment and Purpose as a Software Engineer

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Hey folks, we are going to the comments section from the improver with another question. Um, I apologize. My back is super jacked up from CrossFit. Like, it's almost hard to breathe. I don't know if you've experienced it's not like I didn't pull my back. It's like a lower back pump. It's a really gross feeling, but like it's I don't I don't know any other like I don't know how to get rid of it once it happens. And when you're sitting down, it's not like it goes away. So, it's like kind of winding me. So, I do apologize. I just wanted to make sure that I could get some time answering questions. Um, this was in response to um burnout comparing uh big tech, my experience in big tech to um startups. And uh the question from the improver is um with your current role at Microsoft, do you feel like you've got the same alignment/satisfaction with the mission that you did at the startup?

And how did you make the decision to go from that environment where you're so in love with uh the mission compared to Microsoft where that's maybe not the case? I said, I guess my question boils down to finding jobs or companies whose mission you're able to become passionate about. And I think that's a really good question. Um let me get my car started. Let me get the windows cleared. Let me start moving. Oh, it's so uncomfortable. We had to we had to do heavy squats, which is really nice because I love to squat, but the problem was that wasn't quite a one like a a new PR or anything, but it's like we did singles up to 95% of our one rep max. So, it's basically one rep max. And we did two sets of that at the top. And then we had to do deadlifts, but the the rounds were like 21 deadlifts, then 15 and nine.

And my oo heavy metal. Um, that's what I was going through my headphones when I was squatting, but now my back is crazy jacked up. Okay. Um, friendly reminder for folks, if you want questions answered, leave them below in the comments. Otherwise, look for Dev Leader on social media. Send me a message. I'll keep you anonymous. Happy to try and answer questions about software engineering and career development. With that said, uh we'll talk about mission and stuff. Um and sort of like getting passionate about the work you're doing. I think for some people, they kind of roll their eyes at this and they're like, "Paycheck's a paycheck, man. Who cares?" And like I don't disagree that um I don't disagree that like you know factoring in money like a financial part focus on your compensation I don't think we should neglect that. I think that's like you know we work to serve that purpose right.

Um but my my philosophy is is generally that because we spend so much of our lives working that like it would be a an absolute shame if you spent you know the majority of that time where you're working not doing something that you enjoyed. Um some people just don't believe that that's a thing. Like they don't see that those things can intersect. Like it's work. There is no there is no enjoyment factor in that. Like we shouldn't even try. Just like get in, get your work done, get paid, get out. Um I just like I don't agree with that philosophy. I I'm not saying that you cannot do that cuz you absolutely can and people do it, but I don't like basing my life on that because like I said, like I'm going to be doing it a lot. And the other thing is like I know about myself at least and this is where my bias comes in like I I enjoy working um like I enjoy building things.

I enjoy creating. I like having like something that's an idea or a challenge and then working with people to overcome it. Like that that's exciting. And when I've ever talked to people like financial planners and stuff and they're like you know what's your plan for retiring? I'm like, it's a hard thing for me to answer because I think retirement for me doesn't look like I stop working. I think it looks like I just build the software that I want to build for myself like cuz it's fun. Like I'd probably make games, right? Like that would be fun for me and I don't have to worry about making money or getting paid or whatever. It's just like make the the process of making games or making something would be enjoyable.

Um, so for me it's like, hey, if I can find something that lets me work with other people that are great to work with, solve difficult problems, get paid well, um, and then ideally if the problem space that we're solving is like is interesting to me, like all those things are like boxes that I would like to check. So, when I talked about where I was working, um, I've shared and for those of you that don't know, I used to work at a digital forensics company. I was, uh, it was like employee number seven or eight there. So, I started when it was very small. They were just really ramping up hiring on developers and um, I had no experience in that space at all. It's digital forensics. I had no training in forensics or I don't know anything related to that for that matter. I went to school for computer engineering.

So I have a basic understanding of like of computers. I can I can program right um and I can problem solve and do analysis because I went for engineering. So um but certainly like that domain is not like not something that I was like oh hell yeah like this. This is what I've been training my whole life for. But I remember them explaining like what they do and um I think in the be pardon me little hiccup. Um I think for me when they were explaining it, it didn't even register in the beginning. It more just sounded cool. Like if I'm being honest, uh they're like, you know, you know the show, uh CSI, right? The crime scene investigator show. Um they're like, "We make software that's like used for for stuff like that except for like computers, right? Like it's used by investigators and police officers and government agencies." I'm like, it just sounds cool.

Like you get to help law enforcement solve crimes. Like that sounds really interesting. Um, so there's I'm just talking about from the perspective of like when I was getting hired on and exploring the opportunity. Um, you know, it was a startup. So, I'm like, hey, there's potential here for for me to be at a startup that could turn into something big. That in and of itself is a bit of a gamble, of course, right? It's a startup. Um, sorry, I just realized my music's still playing. So, um probably can't monetize this or something. Um yeah, it was I'm I'm just trying to like recall like what I was aware of. Um I know that they didn't have investors, so it's not like um you know a fully like diluted opportunity or something like that. It's like hey, we're in at the ground level.

they already have they're already profitable technology sounds really interesting like this is it just seems cool but once I I think it was once I started working there and had a better understanding that like when they're talking about helping police officers and investigators um and one of the things that that really stood out was that um and again I don't know what I can say on YouTube without like uh having uh content issues use uh just because the nature of of the topic, but like um basically helping save children if you can think about uh some of the darkest types of crimes that happen involving children. Uh like I said, I don't really want to I'm I know it's taboo to talk about, of course, but it's a real thing that happens. And uh I'm just if I I don't know if I say certain things like on online if like content moderation automatically just like kind of uh keeps my video from being seen.

So um you know use your imagination for what I'm talking about here. Uh but yeah, we you know helping solve crimes and involve that was like the was the big thing. It's like I don't I don't know what more empowering of a mission uh I could be involved in to be honest. We're talking about some of the most like fragile innocent, you know, beings on this planet in saving them from or helping save them from, you know, a lifetime of uh of issues andor not having a life ahead of them. So, you know, it's like I said, it's taboo. It's dark to talk about, but this kind of stuff, uh, I think a lot of people think about it like, oh, that's only that's only in those other countries. It's only, um, like if I just don't think about it, I'm so far removed from it that like it's it's almost like it's not real.

But like people don't realize the prevalence of it. Um, and they don't realize the extent of it. We're not talking a lot of the time. It's not like, oh, that person's like in high school and they're just underage. It's like it's significantly significantly worse. Um, it's like the darkest things, you know, that we could think of. So to be part of helping stop that is like, like I said, I don't know. I don't know what better kind of mission to be involved in. So, you know, I I think everyone is going to have their own motivation. And I'm not telling you that like, hey, if you're not doing something that's that uh, you know, that aligned with, you know, that particular moral compass, then it's not good enough or something like that. Absolutely not. Um, I didn't even know like I didn't plan for something like that.

I kind of fell into it and was like, man, like I feel very fortunate that I did because I didn't realize how much that aligned uh with what, you know, I don't know, like what makes me feel like I'm having a really big impact. Um I'm sure sure I could have been doing other things and felt like hell yeah, like this is this is impactful, this is cool. But that was kind of like an eye openener for me. So, uh, I I do think that everyone's going to have different motivations. And not only that, like your motivations and the things that you're you're interested in pursuing I don't have like science to prove this, but I feel like I want to say that I could pretty confidently say that those things are going to change over time. Maybe not completely, but like as you grow as a human like and mature and have different life experiences, the things that you value and that you're interested in are going to change over time, right?

Like that's just it's part of, you know, our life journeys, right? Like I, you know, one completely t uh complete tangent from like software engineering is for those of you that watch my videos and stuff like like I've been into bodybuilding for years and years and years. Like that's part of my identity is bodybuilding personally. That's just how I kind of like go through life, right? And last year I kind of retired from amateur bodybuilding and said like, "Hey, I want to focus more on my health, my wellness, my my cardiovascular. Like I just want to be more in shape cuz being uh even carrying muscle is like a lot of it. Not that I'm like super muscular or something, but carrying more muscle than you're supposed to on your frame is not healthy for you. It's a lot of work for your organs. People see muscle and they go, "Oh, therefore healthy." And it's like, no.

um you know, being lean, being in shape, sure, but there's a point where when you're trying to grow more and more muscle, it's not healthy, right? Like I'm 5'4. I'm very short and I walk around at like 180 lb. Uh I've been up to 200 lb, right? like um in terms of like being like shredded, I've been shredded at like 165 lb at 5'4. So like it's a lot on your body and not just like it's hard to do and whatever. I mean like it's taxing on your body. Uh walking around and like trying to tie your shoe and being out of breath is like crazy. Like not okay. Uh especially for someone who's in the gym like 7 days a week or 6 days a week, right? That should not be a thing where you're like I need to worry about tying my shoe and being out of breath.

Absolutely not. So, uh like my the things I value in life have changed, right? I I go to CrossFit now instead of bodybuilding. I take more rest days because I want to focus on building a side business. I don't obsess about it as much. I'm like, I know, you know, I know how my body works. I know how to diet. Um, if I'm finding like I'm gaining too much weight, I know exactly what to do. Um, if I if I'm too light and I want to gain weight and go the other way, I know what to do. Like, my values have changed. It's okay. I have different life experiences. That's fine. And I think the same thing will happen with your career. All right.

So, I'm not going to get into the specific details about my transition from Magnet to Microsoft, but one thing that I thought was very interesting is like, and I've talked about this a little bit, um, and this has not worked in my favor too, which is kind of, uh, hilarious, but, um, the the, um, sort of career structure where I was working at the time uh just like there were no titles above me. There were no roles above me. Sorry, that's not fair to say. Like I had a manager, right? The VP of engineering would have been my manager, but um I actually didn't have a title that I could be promoted into. And so they were working on defining that, but like you know there there is no actual thing defined there.

at Microsoft there are tons of titles right so you or one might imagine that um in terms of growing in my career like hey there's a lot more opportunity for it but the you know ironic part if you've been listening to my vlogs is like I've been at Microsoft it' be 5 years in August I've I've not been promoted I've been put up for promotion several times and I've been denied several times so I've had my manager and my skip level manager in different situations because I've had those have changed over 5 I've been able to convince them where they feel like, you know, Nick is ready and then it gets denied. Um, so I have I have not grown in my career at all and this was one of the things in my mind uh was like this will be a good opportunity for career growth and just absolutely has not been.

Um, so like that was a factor, right? being able to say, "Okay, if I go into big tech, I'll be able to um kind of go from what I was doing to be able to focus on me for my career." Um cuz that's that's part of it, right? If you've heard my stories about burnout and stuff like that, um you know, I I was doing a lot of work and I was being compensated, so I'm not not complaining about that. But when I think about it, like I was part of helping and don't what I'm about to say. I don't mean it's going to sound like negative, but uh the two people I'm talking about like I invited them to my wedding. Like they're two of the most impactful people in my life. So it's not a resentful thing. This is just like an observation, right?

Like I was part of helping two people basically have like half a billion dollars each. Not half a million, like half a billion with a B each. And when I think about, you know, me putting all of that time in, I'm not saying like I'm the sole reason that that happened. And of course that would be insane to say, but like I was part of dedicating myself to that and and part of me is like I I need to focus on me, right? So in in the time since magnet, it's been okay like how can I advance my career? What things can I be doing for me? Which is why I build things like a little bit more uh I don't know like uh deliberately on the side like I build brand ghost on the side like can I make this a business for me

right I sell courses on the side can I make this for me right when I go to invest time into things like it's I feel like I for a long time I've been thinking about other people um in terms of furthering other people's goals. And again, I'm not saying this like there's no resentment there. Uh I just realize it probably comes across that way. Um but it's like I think it's time. I don't want to get through I don't want to get through a huge chunk of my life. Like my 20s are gone. I'm past my I I my birthday was on the weekend. I just turned 36, right? And I'm like what about me? Um, so I for me in terms of the things I value, I'm like it's it's Nick time, right? Like I I want to make sure that if if I was able to help contribute to the overwhelming financial success of other people, when is it my turn?

Right? Like I work my ass off like crazy. Like I'm I'm ready. Um, and you know, the ironic part is like, like I said, for for being at Microsoft and then not even getting promoted is like that's kind of a kind of funny because I'm like, okay, I'm not actually even on paper growing in my career. Um, sure there's experiences and things like that, but and that, you know, add those things onto a resume, so to speak, but, um, in terms of, you know, career progression, like absolutely not. And again, not Not bashing these people. I've had people that reported to me where I used to work that are that are directors now. Like they are levels above me now in the sort of the metaphorical career ladder, which is great. Like they're amazing people. But I was on this path that was like one of the things that I'm hoping I will see on this path is is career progression and like just has not happened.

So, in terms of like I think something that I've probably not done a good job of is like if we're talking about like how do you align like what you're interested in or what do you value with the places you want to work? Uh I don't know maybe like I'm not bashing Microsoft as a whole here because I've talked about this whole thing extensively in other videos. Like I I genuinely wonder if I should have looked at this a little bit sooner and been like, "Hey, I don't see the career advancement that I'm expecting here. Time to move on." Right? Like it's not even like my manager was like, "No." It was like my manager is like, "Yep." And my skip is like, "Yep." And it's still not happening. I'm like, "Maybe I should have taken that as a sign like I'm not going to grow here." I don't know.

I don't That's the thing though. Like I don't like thinking about things that way. Maybe that's a naive thing. Maybe I do need to remain more selfish, focus more on me, and just say if you're not going to do it, someone else will. Like I'll go find the someone else. Um perhaps that's what I should be doing. It just doesn't feel like that's almost against my own values. It's just weird. Um but yeah, it's like, you know, currently I'm in a point in my life where I'm like I need to I feel like I need to focus on me. That means career progression. That means uh compensation and ultimately that means uh some amount of work life balance from my like a 9 to5 so that I can invest more into me because I've talked about this before. I feel like for me ultimately I want to be doing my own thing.

I don't know if I'll ever be like air quotes like happy with work until I'm doing my own thing. And I don't know, maybe one day I'll do it and I'll say I'm still not happy with it. I don't know. It's hard to say. So I spend a lot of that time talking about like I don't know like inter like personal stuff I guess but the other factor is like depending on the domain that the company's in uh you know I have a a good friend of mine uh left some larger companies to go work at a startup uh that is focused on like reforestation And for him, that's like a huge thing. Like he going for him, he's like, you know, there could be other places that pay more. Uh there like whatever it happens to be, right? Better perks and stuff, but uh he's got he's got a pretty decent like highle position at a smaller company that focuses on this with a strong mission that he's behind.

like seems like a good fit to me, right? Um what I do at Microsoft is not specifically um it's not like specifically like a a personal interest of mine, right? Like I'm not I didn't grow up like loving routing. Doesn't mean that it's not interesting. It doesn't mean that it's not interesting tech. It doesn't mean that it's not uh super impactful and global and like it it's all those things. It's like it's just not something I grew up or like have like a like a personal passion for outside of work, which is fine. Like I was saying before, even with the forensics stuff, I didn't have like a passion for that outside of work. I didn't grow up liking that. But when I fell into it, I was like that that does resonate. Falling into something like routing, I'm like that's not that's not resonating on the same level.

which is fine. I don't think it has to as long as there's other parts in there that are in alignment with you, if that makes sense. Everyone's going to be different for this, right? So maybe if you're at a point in your career or your interest, whatever it happens to be, you might be like, I just want really interesting problems to solve or I love solving problems at scale or I love solving like super niche things that like other people just aren't going to know and like I have to go do that. Like so some of the team that I used to manage at the forensic company had to do a bunch of that. Like you can't just Google it. you have to go spend the time researching it and trying it and doing it for, you know, weeks or months until you get a breakthrough.

And I had a couple people that were crazy motivated by that stuff. Everyone's going to be different. Um, I guess like the piece of advice that I have here is like don't um and this is my philosophy, right? I just wouldn't settle for, you know, long-term settle for like not finding something that you love to do right now. Hear me out though. You might be in a position where you get paid well or well enough. you have really good work life balance and because of that that affords you time in the other parts of your life where you really can focus on the things you love to do by all means like that's that's great. My my point is overall, okay, like let's assume you're getting your six to eight hours of sleep. Okay, so what does that leave us with? That's uh either 16 to 18 hours of being awake.

You're going to work your 9 to5. So another eight hours, right? So you got 8 to 10 hours of your day. Are you able to use a significant amount of that time doing the stuff you love? That could be that you're with your family. It could be that you're with your friends. It could be that you're building other things. It could be that you have hobbies that you just love to go do. If you're able to get that freedom, let's call it freedom from from working whatever job you're doing and that balance is okay, then great. Um, for me, it's just like I would love to find some of that time at work to still be something I love. Um, and that way I don't feel like I have to wake up to go do something that I'm like, I don't like this, but at least it pays me money.

Like, I don't want to be in that situation. Um, and I need to be honest with myself that when I do that, I'm like, well, what are you going to do about it? Because I can sit here and tell all of you on a camera on a video that goes to YouTube and you're like, that's nice, Nick, but like tell us about the time you did that. And I'm like, oh no. like I just, you know, I've hated my life for 20 years and I've never changed anything. Like I also have to I also have to live by what I'm saying. So um I just think, you know, takes awareness. You have to be able to do that reflection to be like what do I actually value? Like where am I at which means don't just do it once. Don't say I did that 5 years ago and here's what it told me.

Like I don't know what the frequency is but more than once. and then kind of re-evaluate where you're at. And I think it's, you know, a lot of people are scared to change like I am for sure. It's uncomfortable, right? You get into a groove, you get complacent. But I think we have to do that type of reflection. We have to be honest with ourselves. And if you need change, you need change. So, um, I don't know if that answers the question for the improver, but that's kind of the the direction I wanted to to take the conversation. So, hope that helps. Um, and of course, if you guys have more questions, leave them in the comments or send a message to Dev Leader on social media. And I will see you next time. Take care.