ADHD, Anxiety, and Depression in Software Engineering

Transcript is auto-generated and may contain errors.

Hey folks, I'm going to be going to the experience dev subreddit here. Um, I'm going to talk about this post that it's about questions about ADHD. Uh, and then they say anxiety and depression as well. I mean, it's kind of a a bucket of things I'm not saying or trying to hint that those are necessarily correlated. I don't think that totally makes sense. But this person was kind of just saying like, "Hey, if you if you're someone kind of living with these these things, um, not necessarily all three together, maybe in some cases, uh, one, two, or three, uh, or more types of these things. Uh, do you feel uh, quote unquote nerfed compared to your, uh, your colleagues?" And so, I thought this would be kind of interesting to talk through because I was, uh, having a conversation with my wife about this last

night and I think that I don't know um especially like at least for me when I go through a couple weeks of of being on call and it's very busy and I'm like completely burnt out from it that this is like a just just kind of a like an interesting reminder around like you know what things, what things stress me out, what things get me energized. Um, because for me, by the time I wrap up my on call, like I'm like I'm not in good shape to be quite honest. And I think just uh maybe let me add a little bit more color. Um, like I when I end up doing my on call shift, it's it's uh 2 weeks uh it's only it's only 6 hours a day.

uh and Sundays are off, but um I end up in situations sort of just because of uh both my role and the the team I manage that uh even if I'm not on call, there are situations either related to security or or otherwise uh technology that helps enforce security where I might find myself basically being on call uh without having a dedicated shift. And so past couple of times I've had a an actual assigned on call rotation, including this one, I was basically working on stuff outside of my on call shift. So there were some days like like right now when I'm driving to CrossFit, I I wake up at 5:30 and then um get out the door by 6:00 a.m. to drive to CrossFit. And so like that's literally what I'm doing right now.

And there were some days like at shortly after 5:30 after like turning off my alarm and then kind of dismissing notifications on my phone, I'm reading through what's there and I'm like, "Oh, I guess I guess I'm starting work like now." Um, and so would do that. And then, you know, this time around my on my actual on call shift started from noon and went till 6:00. So noon would hit and then I'm like balancing my my on call shift with whatever I was doing prior related um you know maybe to some some more specific things that kind of got me going earlier in the morning and by the end of that day that's a 12-hour day but then it doesn't uh stop at 6. It just kind of goes back to whatever I was doing when I woke up at 5:30 and knew that a little bit sprinkled throughout the night because going to start it again the next day.

And so some of these days they go from being a 6-h hour on call shift which is already just for what it's worth like it's already uh depending on the day can be pretty hectic. Um I when I made a couple videos uh I don't know last week depending on when you're watching this it doesn't that doesn't really matter. the uh I was talking about like platform teams and stuff like that and uh yeah I think for folks that have not like if you worked on a live service then you understand then you know there could be lots of uh lots of challenges you have lots of users and you know it's kind of like it's not like your users only come on online at a certain time uh you know so how do you deal with that when you're a platform it's it's kind of that times x number of teams.

So, it can it can be you can have a light on call shift and then when sometimes when it gets heavy, it can be really heavy. So, anyway, that's just a little bit of background. Like by the time I get through that, when I have things like that stacked up, it's uh it's just it's a lot. Um and so yeah, I was talking to my wife about it last night because she can tell like I'm it's a Sunday night, right? Like my en call was supposed to be done 6:00 p.m. on Saturday and I'm I'm sitting at my my desk like my my like at my computer do where I'm supposed to be doing the stuff that I enjoy and I'm just sitting there like holding my head in my hands and she like walks into my office and she's like, "Hey, like like what's going on?" Right?

like she knows that I'm just kind of I got nothing left. So So we were talking about it and that's where I was doing some some more of this reflection. I got to pass my wife. Bye. Um, and yeah, so I think where I kind of want to go with this conversation around like ADHD, anxiety, depression. Um, I have uh, you know, not been diagnosed with anxiety. Do I experience anxiety? Sure. But I I wouldn't say that I'm someone who has a an anxiety uh, problem or anything like that. I I have absolutely uh gone through periods of depression. I would say right now I don't feel I don't feel depressed. I I don't know. I think actually to be totally honest, I think right now uh there's probably some of that.

I've had I've had periods where I'm this act like this is going back even like prior to knowing my wife, but like periods of depression where, you know, I I' I've told I don't think I've said this on camera before, but there were periods of my life where like um I'd either, you know, when I have to drive home from work to go take my dog out or like as soon as work finishes, uh like getting into my my car and just like crying like being being like that depressed where as soon as I'm alone it's like it's uh just just not okay. Um but like I'm certainly certainly nothing like that right now. But I I do think that I I'm probably a little like depressed in the sense where uh like burnout, exhaustion kind of mixed in.

Uh the depression part I would say for folks that have not like gone through periods where they feel depressed, it's not necessarily just like a like I am so sad which was a I don't know that was something new to me when I had first like sort of realized I had had some kind of depression. So it's not just like I am sad. Uh so I I think there's probably a little bit of that to be honest and that's I I would say somewhat attributed to burnout. Um but definitely like this other factor is like I think um I I had been diagnosed with ADHD and I don't I don't know I don't like using that as a what's the word like none of this is like an an excuse I guess but I think it's an interesting way to like to try and understand uh how how your brain works, right?

And I realize like to say ADHD, like I'm sure there's a a huge spectrum of what that actually looks like for different people. Um, but when I was reading through the comments on this Reddit thread, something I thought was very interesting was people people that were saying they have ADHD and being like, "Please like put me This sounds it sounded so funny to read, but it was basically like put me into this situation where I have to do firefighting because it's like it's chaos and it's exciting and engaging. Like, put me into that. don't put me into like the, you know, the uh the planning sessions and the long meetings and that it was like they want they want the chaos and uh I don't know I I just when I was reading that I was like really and then other people kind of chiming in and being like man like you're exactly explaining like me this post is about me this comment's about me.

Um, which I thought was pretty interesting, but I was thinking about it more and more, especially compared to my conversation with my wife last night. And what I was talking to my wife about was around like having lists of things. I whether it's written down, whether it's in my head or on a whiteboard, uh, my life is lists. And so for me, it's like the the only way that I can kind of like keep track of what has to get done and then try to figure out a priority. And one challenging thing is priority can be like sometimes there's so much to do that it's overwhelming in like every every possible way. And when things feel overwhelming, unfortunately, one of the side effects of that could be like almost feeling paralyzed, right? Which seems so backwards because if you have so much to do, don't you think the worst thing to do would be nothing?

But it's like you just can't you can't even start. And so sometimes when that feeling is there, uh the the priority is to go pick the easiest thing on the list, the quickest thing, get something off the list, get started, get some momentum, right? Um, and then there there are sometimes where following that might kind of uh get through a few things on the list and then all of a sudden you have a bit of momentum built up and then hey, now you can actually go tackle something. But I was talking to my wife about having having a list and feeling like, you know, it's it's something that I've talked about in videos where it's like there is no shortage of work, right?

the when I have uh you know made videos talking about AI and how I'm like hey look like you know I I don't see personally I don't see a world where it's like you add AI and the the total amount of work is shrinking and therefore sort of like eliminate our need to be here. I'm like there's so much work to do that like you know it's uh it's indefinite. It's perpetual. And I was that's kind of what I was saying, not not the AI part, but to my wife last night. I was like, the the reality is like if I just, you know, this list is going to keep growing. It's a it's literally impossible to do everything that's already on the list. It just is, which means prioritization remains the most important thing for me. And it's sort of this acknowledgment that like um that it's never all going to get done.

There's always going to be more. And that that's something I really struggle with. And I I don't know. I think I wanted to kind of share part of that because because of the challenge of like trying to keep organized that way, having an endless list of things to do. Uh, and I'm not, by the way, I'm not saying that as like a complaint or like, oh, that makes my life so hard. I'm just saying like I I personally struggle because I like having a a list to work through to feel productive and then to stay organized. And the other thing that my my wife kind of said to me, she was like, but I think one of the reasons you struggle with it too is cuz you're very proud of your work. And that means that when you have a list of things to do that you know that you cannot like you physically will never be able to get through them all.

Um that's especially challenging because it's sort of like this admission to to failure basically, right? And like because you're proud of the work you do, you kind of like are just constantly accepting that you're failing which I thought was kind of I thought was interesting. Right. I think that the proud part, you know, really really fit the bill there. So, I have this kind of challenge as uh you know, as an engineering manager. Uh I have three small sub teams and this is like an ongoing thing plus just like what I need to be taking care of in general for work and then not to mention like everything outside of work in my life. So the list part, the organization part, that's a big factor for me.

I think um the other thing I wanted to mention and I think what I want, you know, if there's anything to kind of take away from just this random random series of thoughts on on ADHD and some other stuff is like uh I I think that sometimes this stuff can be a superpower, right? when I talk to my teams especially I don't know I feel like it's been a topic in particular over the last 12 months and then even more over the last 6 months like this idea of randomization right I think um one of my goals as an engineering manager is to minimize how much I'm randomizing people I want them to be focused I want to make sure they have uh you know clear guidance they know what their priorities are they know that I trust them that if we're on the same

page for things we value and what's important that uh that they're sort of in a position where they can they can adjust priorities because they understand we're on we're on the same page. We're in agreement, right? Of course, it's not just to do it in isolation, but you don't need me to make decisions for you because we're aligned. And so when it comes to to minimizing chaos and randomization, um I sort of been been realizing at least for me to do that effectively for my team sometimes that means that I I need to be the one to be randomized and it's not a scalable thing I would say but if I imagine myself even in uh if I imagine myself in sort of the the role that's the level above mine which is a a manager of managers right I've been doing this particular role

for for 13 and a half years now as a as a frontline engineering manager but if I had to manage other managers I I don't think this part would change for me and that is I if I'm trying to help my employees do their best work possible and stay focused Then to me ultimately that means being able to step in and help reduce the the effect of randomization which means that sometimes I may have to jump in across a surface area of multiple people to to help you know get things done take some load off of folks whatever it is which ultimately means getting randomized and so I don't like when I talk to my employees employees and coach and stuff like that. I will say like, hey, you know, I'm I'm trying to minimize the randomization for you. And that like logically applies to to me as well, right?

If I'm saying, hey, for you to be effective, obviously tons of context switching, not great. I believe the same thing for me. But at the end of the day, when it comes to helping my team be more effective, like I I I believe that I end up having to to take some of that. I'm not saying that's the only solution or the only thing I do. I'm just saying that when push comes to shove, if I'm trying to minimize the randomization for them, that ultimately means I need to step in. Um, and when it comes to like leaning into things, like if uh, you know, some of that chaos feels like a bit of a superpower for you as someone with ADHD, like I it kind of aligns for me, right? When I have to do security work where it feels like things are on fire and there's a lot of urgency, like to me that's actually very exciting.

It's very engaging. Is it Is it tiring? Sure. I definitely think so. It's not something that is like super sustainable, but uh like for a long period of time, but it's exciting. It's engaging. Like I it's kind of chaotic. Um and it's about kind of bringing some order to that chaos. And I do really, you know, uh find that enjoyable. So I think if you just I don't know give some thought into like this kind of stuff at least periodically and understand like what gets you excited, what doesn't and trying to find ways to like lean into that then um I don't know. I think there's it's just like a good good reflection opportunity. So yeah, at least for me, I would say this combination of like not being able to get through lists is like a it's a constant stress. Like that really bothers me.

Like I'm trying to it's like I'm trying to perpetually organize chaos and I know that I can't win at that. Like it's it's it is truly indefinite. And uh while I know that logically, like it's not how I how I feel. And so that is a constant stress that like really I don't know like it really eats away at me. Um and it's kind of funny cuz if you just if you were to toss the whole list and say, "Hey, like here's what's in front of us right now. Like get done." Like it would probably feel more exciting. Um so yeah, I don't know. I don't know where I truly wanted to go with that. I just wanted to kind of talk through a bunch of different bunch of different ideas. But yeah, was doing a lot of thinking about this last night and kind of thought it was relevant uh when I was reading through that that Reddit post.

And so yeah, I think takeaway for me here is uh or a takeaway from me to you hopefully is something along the lines of like you know pause, reflect and maybe give some thought into where you're at, you know, your state of burnout, things like that. um you know, if you're someone with ADHD or anything else going on, um trying to find ways that that that isn't something that you feel like is holding you back, but something that you can lean into and take advantage of that. I don't know. Hope that helps. Some Monday morning thoughts, but if you got questions about software engineering, career development, leave them below in the comments. Otherwise, you can go to codecomute.com, submit your questions there. Uh it's totally anonymous and I will try my best to make you a video. Take care.