Take The Money, Wait For The Promo, Or... Ask For MORE?

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Hey folks, we are going to LinkedIn for a question that was submitted and this is a pretty lengthy one. I think it's a really good topic though and in a nutshell, this is going to be exploring going to a different big tech company that is going to be paying more but is technically a step back and technically has uh what could be considered more challenging progression forward to get to the same level that this person's already at. So, they wrote in to say, again, I'm not going to read the whole thing, but they're not actively looking for a different, you know, employer. They have a pretty good reason to believe that by the end of next year, they should be receiving a promotion. And, um, I, you know, I haven't talked back and forth with them, but I assume that they know that nothing is ever guaranteed, especially that far out.

But, um, based on everything that they were writing, feels like a pretty good trajectory. um you know it's a better position to be in then you know I someone's saying like I better be getting my promotion like next month or something like that it's like they got a bunch of time they've been getting good feedback they feel like they're doing the right things and they should be on pace for that so that's a good feel and um essentially they had a recruiter reach out they ended up interviewing with another big tech company and um this other company would be at a lower level, but higher pay. And they didn't confirm it, I don't think, but I think that the higher pay is probably higher pay than even if they got the promotion at the place they're at. So, pretty competitive. And for them, that's enough where they're like, hm, like now I have a interesting challenge.

So, for this person, is it a matter of, well, I'm going to go where the money is. I'm going to take that, you know, that step back in my level and then potentially have a harder time progressing to the same level that they're at or should they wait, right? Should they wait? Should they get promoted? Should they then go re-entertain that? Should they try to push back on the recruiter and say, "I want to be considered at some other level." So, I think there's a bunch of interesting options here. Um, I'm going to walk through my perspective on this. This isn't going to be like professional career advice or anything like that, but I just want to think through and uh kind of analyze the different approaches with with my perspective. So, a friendly reminder for folks before I dive into that that this channel is entirely driven by your questions that you submit.

So, you can leave them below in the comments. Uh they'll be totally public that way or you can go to codeccommute.com and submit your questions. I have fixed the website. The last commit that I did, I ended up changing the endpoint for email submissions to be local host, which is why it was broken. So, please go ahead and submit there. And if you're not comfortable with any of that, you can just look for dev leader on social media and uh send me a message. I'll be happy to keep you anonymous. Okay. So, a bunch of different aspects here. I think generally when I look at this kind of stuff, I like to think about like this is the kind of thing that only someone can answer for themselves, right? And I think that you need to go through this exercise of figuring out what you value.

And that is going to be unique, right? So for someone they might like given how this person wrote this, the fact that whatever offer that they're getting, I don't think he wrote even wrote in numbers here, but the fact that he's getting a potential offer that's that's high enough is enough to get him to consider to switch, that's a good indicator that probably, you know, probably there's a lot of value placed on finances. And there's nothing wrong with that, right? There's there's going to be situations where if there's a job opportunity and it pays enough, you'll probably be like, "Heck yeah, I want to do that." The first employee that I ever had in my career that left my team uh was at Microsoft and they were going to another company and they were getting an offer there that was I think just about on

par with what I was making as a principal engineering manager and I think they were uh not even senior they were like sort of mid-level junior to mid-level and like for in my mind I'm like I can absolutely understand why you would take that opportunity, right? Like it's if there's a big enough difference in the money, like that could be that could feel life-changing. So, no guilt in that. Um I always remind people that if like that's the only thing you're ever looking at, at some point it might not feel that um that rewarding, but um I think for a lot of people, if you add in more salary, then um you know, that can make a big difference, right? So, I think this person's going to have to kind of sit down and think about this a little bit.

I'm sure they have, but I'm this is my sort of response to them is that you do need to go through this thought process because um I I don't think that they can make a wrong decision here. Um are they going to make a decision they regret? Like, probably not. Like, if they just to go through it, right? I like doing worst case scenarios. If they take that option, they're going to be making more money and they will still be able to progress in their career. They don't know if it's actually going to be harder or not. They might maybe it is. Let's say it's slower to progress. Okay, you're making more money, more money than you would be when you're promoted. If you keep sticking around there and you like the work you're doing and then eventually get promoted, you're going to be making even more money.

That doesn't seem so bad. Okay, but I just want to go through this and kind of do the worst case scenario. They could stay where they're at, get promoted, right? Now they've they've lost that job opportunity and then they could apply again or they could apply elsewhere right or they might even find that after they waited and they got promoted now that they have that opportunity to be sort of like that next role up in uh their like the different tier of level that they have. Maybe that's a good spot and they're enjoying the work there. It's a and by that point in time, a year and a bit from now, they feel good about that. And if not, they can go interview again, right? And they might not get it at at the company they applied to or sorry, where the recruiter reached out, they could apply to a different one, right?

It's it's not the end of the road. Now, if they go back to the recruiter, they could ask and say, "I want to be considered for another level. So, I want to be considered at the next level." The recruiter could say no. The recruiter could The recruiter could say nope and we're going to take away the offer. I think that's like in my opinion uh I I don't see that being um the most likely scenario, but let's, you know, worst case scenario, they take it away. Okay, you just forced your hand into the second option we talked about. Like it's not so bad, right? Um, so my my opinion on this is like when I look at all the worst case scenarios, I'm like this is a good spot to be in. So friendly reminder, good spot to be in. Um, and that means that I like I said, I don't think you're going to make a wrong decision here.

But I think you have to consider what you value more, which is money. Again, nothing wrong with that. Or or career progression. Now, I could tell you that if I had to make this decision for myself, it would be very challenging. I don't know percentage-wise how much more money this person is talking about, but let's like let's kind of go through the exercise for me so that I'm not putting this person on the spot and like giving them or giving out too many details of their scenario. But for me, I have said on this channel that as an engineering manager, I've been middle m middle mid-level engineering manager for 13 years and I would like to get to the point in my career where I can be sort of like a director level where I'm managing managers. And if I didn't come to Microsoft, I would have already be in this role, may even be VP where I was at before.

So, um, it's not impossible by any means, but I'm now in a position based on my career trajectory where even if I get promoted, if I were to get promoted this year, I will not be in a position where I can manage managers, I would quite literally have to leave the team I'm on to go to a growing team to even have that potential. It's it's simply not an opportunity on my team. my team is not growing like that. So, I would need to consider like, okay, if I'm going to want to remain at this level, how much more money would someone have to pay me so that I can't like that I'm not achieving my career goal? And for me, it would have to be an awful lot. But it's not like that number doesn't exist, right? At at some point I find that there's there's a dollar value that when you have that dollar value, it sort of takes off stresses for other parts of your life.

And that dollar value is going to look different for different people and it's going to look different for the same person at different points in their life. Like like for example, um I am married now. If I wasn't married now, that dollar value might be a lot lower for me because I'm not thinking about me providing for myself and my wife. We don't have kids. if we had a kid, right? Like I would I'm gonna likely be more focused on the dollar value because I want to make sure that I can provide for my family becomes a more significant thing that I need to focus on. So I think for this person, they need to go through that reflection. This is the part that I can't answer for them, right? And I I don't think that they're actually asking me to do that for them, but I want to be very transparent that that's like I think what has to happen.

So, um I think again not professional advice on this would be that if they have this lined up, if they look at their two of their three options that I walk through, one is take it, right? Take it, take the money, take a like take a step back in your career and maybe it goes a little bit slower. if they don't hate that option and they don't hate the option of waiting to get promoted where they're at and like both are things that they'd be happy to live with. If that's the case, I think there's literally nothing to lose. I shouldn't say nothing to lose, but I think that it's very very low risk to go back to the recruiter and say, "I'd like to be considered at a higher level." Um, when I was interviewing at Microsoft, uh, it was a principal engineering manager role and so that's level 65 to start a principal.

That job position said 65 or 66. And I can't remember the exact conversation with the recruiter, but I remember asking and like that was up for debate around what role or what level I was going to be brought in at. and like kind of I maybe I should have pushed, right? Maybe I should have pushed for 66 or something like that. But um I remember at the time and I've said this uh before on on different videos, but like I'm not before Microsoft titles didn't and levels meant nothing to me at all. Concept couldn't care any less for. Um but knowing what I know now, I probably would have maybe tried to make a bigger push for 66 or something like that perhaps, right? But I remember it was like, "Oh, no. We're going to do 65." And I was like, "Fine, okay, like whatever. Cool.

I'll negotiate on on compensation, that kind of thing." Um, but I I personally feel like that the most likely thing that will happen is that they'll say no, and they'll say, "Nope, our offer is at whatever level, and so be it." But I do think that there's an opportunity to negotiate. This is a thing. I know right now job market's really tough. Not saying it's not, but something that we are always taught when it comes to job offers is negotiate, right? Like there's an expectation that there's going to be some negotiation. So, if you say nothing about the compensation, you're literally leaving potential money on the table. Okay, maybe you're fine with the money and you want to do on the title. I would personally I would say try it because if we go back to the worst case scenario here, the worst case scenario is they say no and we're revoking the offer.

Okay, go do what you were going to do as option two, which was, you know, wait for your promotion and go try again. So, I I don't know. I I feel like I feel like that would be my my take on this. I'm just double checking if there's anything more that I can add for different perspective here. Um, yeah, I might have some of the timing messed up here. So, um, yeah, I think they're even saying they they think that on their CV that they should even be like totally fine to be at the next level, which is even more a reason that I'm like, just go do it. Um, oh, and I might have even misread. Sorry. I'm just This is a really big message. I I thought they said they have the offer, but it looks like they're saying um expected to be interviewing in the next couple of weeks.

So, I want to challenge it if I'm going to be then obviously. Yeah. So, yeah, I would ask for the next level for sure. Um the the final thing I want to say though is like on the slower career progression. If you go to this other place and the career progression you believe is slower because you've taken a step back and it's going to be even harder to make progress there. The reality is like if you are truly able to perform at a higher level and you bust your ass and show that and you take on those opportunities, you seek out those challenges that have higher impact and you demonstrate that there are people that are fast flyers. Now, if you're getting paid a lot more money, is that going to I don't know. For some individuals, is that going to be less motivating for you where you're like, screw it, like I make more money now, like I don't have to try as hard, maybe.

But if the career stuff and the progression of the responsibilities is something that's really motivating for you, um that might be even more reason to do it to say like, "Cool, I took this like step back in my career. I really want to nail it." Okay, get going, right? Come up with a plan with your manager. What are their expectations? Right? Work on that. Make sure that you understand those things and then just start busting ass because if you truly are able to, you know, you're on the verge of being promoted to like what would be a whole sort of role level above that, then yeah, like you should have all the capabilities to do it. It's just about making sure you take advantage of those opportunities or create them, right? Because you you could be put into a team where maybe that's not like as obvious for those opportunities.

just start creating them, right? Um, I think that would be my advice in this person's case here. Um, yeah, but they say I might be selling myself short in the long run. I mean, again, this is uh the thing that they have to decide like, let's put it this way. If if the like what is your end goal? Because if your end goal is just to be working for your entire life kind of thing, then and in big tech, you know, working for someone, then perhaps maybe that is selling yourself short, right? You're like, "Okay, I'm I'm moving back in levels." That's years of effort lost seemingly on paper, right? It's years of effort you're going to have to continue to put in to get your sort of level to recover. Um perhaps, right? But if your goal is not to be working for someone for, you know, a very very very long uh time, then perhaps not.

Maybe making more money, like significantly more money right now and sticking with that is actually a shorter path to where you want to get to. But I don't know the answer to that. Right? So, um I know like I am pretty confident that if I stay where I am and continue to get promoted where I'm at that compensationwise, um I could take a step back and go to a different company and uh I've seen offers that are like, you know, 50% more than I'm making, if not more, in some cases like double. So like if you think about that, if my motivation is just going to be around finances, then it would make a lot of sense for me to go prioritize all of my effort to go that way. But that's not and another thing that makes it difficult for me is as an engineering manager with my career goal being to go to a director position where I'm managing managers.

Many places will not hire people in to do that unless they have previous experience. So, it's it's a very sticky spot for me because I basically have to get that opportunity. Probably the best way is doing that internally before I'd be able to make a lateral move to a different company or sorry to it would need to be a lateral move at that point to a different company. But to kind of uplevel to the next role for me is going to be very very challenging. So, it's going to be different for everyone. But yeah, I think that would be my advice in this person's case. So, I don't think that they're going to mess this up. I think they have great options in front of them, and it's a good problem to have when you have options, right? So, I hope that that is helpful for this individual.

I hope that gave you something to think about. And just a reminder, you can submit your questions below in the comments or go to codemute.com and send it in anonymously if you'd like. Thanks so much and I'll see you next time. Take care.