I'm Fed Up - How Do I Ask My Manager About A Team Change?

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Hey folks, we are going to the comments today for a question. This was sent in regarding um someone who's not feeling very motivated in terms of their ability to influence the software development life cycle. Um if I understood correctly, the background is like they're at a company that's not um I don't if I understood it's not necessarily like a big software company. It's just that they have software. Um there's actually a lot of companies that are like this. I know that a lot of the time we talk about this stuff like it's you're in a company, all it does is software, but this individual um said like they're not getting a lot of um they don't have a lot of influence and they're kind of getting frustrated and like there's a lot of things that they're just not really pleased with. And I guess they're kind of at the end of the line with that.

and they were curious what my recommendations would be on how to approach their manager for an internal transfer. So, I wanted to talk through this. I think um when I was reflecting on it, I want to be kind of like cautious with my advice here because this is one of the things where it's it's easier for me to talk about if this person were on my team and like they were in this situation, how would I approach it? that I need to keep in mind that they're not on my team and uh the advice I'd want to give uh for someone working with me might be different than their manager. So the first thing that I want to kind of talk through here is that this entire thing is going to be based on uh like your your working sort of interactions and your working relationship with your manager.

And so you would know your manager better than I would because I don't know I don't know you and I don't know your manager. And this goes for the person that wrote this comment and for you if you're listening and watching this, right? Uh I I don't know your manager unless your manager actually is me and you're one of my direct reports, then there we go. But um you're going to know that better than me. So when we're thinking about this, I want you to keep in mind and kind of answer some of these questions for yourself. like what does your working relationship with your manager look like? Are you able to have open honest conversations? Do they seem very supportive of you? Are they genuinely interested and curious about your growth areas? Have they talked to you about areas for improvement for yourself?

Uh, are they the kind of manager that's always like, I don't know, uh, uninterested, skipping one-on- ons, you know, keep up the good work, and like not really keeping tabs with you or like never having career conversations. Are they a hard ass? Um, you know, is it like no matter what you do, they're always seemingly out to get you and like, um, I don't know. like you you need to be able to kind of look at this working relationship with your manager first to be able to kind of see which direction you may want to go with this. So the reason I say this is because if we start on the happy path, right? happy path for me is if I'm thinking about if I had employees on my team whether it was because of the same motivation like hey I feel like I feel

like I wanted things to change and I haven't been able to drive influence like I would feel kind of disappointed in myself for maybe not having awareness of that but um that doesn't change you know this ask right so regardless of the motivation if someone came to me and said hey I would like to do an internal transfer right I honestly just want people to be open and honest about things, it makes everything so much easier once you do that. Um, when you don't and you're, you know, you're dancing around things or you have expectations of things but you've never actually made them clear. Um, and this goes for both sides, right? The employee and the manager. This is where you get friction. This is where you get disappointment. So, if someone came to me and said, "Hey, look, like I would, you know, I'd be interested in trying to see if I could switch to another team.

Are you able to to help me with that or could we talk about what that would look like?" Number one, for me, I would be like, I'm I'm just being, you know, completely honest here. First of all, I would be like, "Oh, man, like what did I do wrong?" So, I would be asking them. I'd say, "Hey, like like hey, where, you know, um I don't I'm trying to think of how I would actually say this. It's funny trying to come up with words on the spot like this, but I would probably ask like, well, hey, what's up? Like, where, you know, where did where did this come from? What's the motivation? Um, not to challenge them on it, not to say you're wrong, but it's because I would be curious about if I've done something wrong or if it's um that I can, you know, improve or if it's motivated by something else.

And in this person's case, kind of sounds like maybe a little bit of both, right? We don't know. But um it seems like they haven't been able to have the influence they want. Maybe their manager could have done a better job with that. Who knows? Um you know, maybe this person was trying to make suggestions and people were like look like just drop it. Like things things are good and like you're I think they kind of said like ruffling feathers and maybe maybe the way they were coming across genuinely was doing that, right? It's not for me to say what the reality is on that, but I would be curious to understand. And so I would probably start my part of the conversation back just trying to seek to understand and um I've had someone who um not not even an internal transfer like they actually left the team.

This is uh my first team at Microsoft and so I was like oh no like I thought like and they were you know really good employee and I was like oh no like what did I do wrong here and they were very transparent. They're like, "Look, like I actually really like working on this team." But for for them, one of their career goals, they said, "I'm early in my career, and I want to make sure that while I'm early in my career, I try different things out." So, they I think they had gone to another big tech company, but they were like, "It has nothing to do with me liking it or not here." They're like, "It's great. like the team, like what we work on, like working for you, but I want to make sure that in my earlier years in my career, I kind of move around and try different things out.

Um, okay. Like great. So, but this person in like in that real example, they approached me and just told me, right? So, they were open and honest and whatever and it wasn't like a trying to hide anything. And while sure, that kind of sucked to hear, I was very excited for them. So, if I had a person that came to me and said they wanted to transfer and um it wasn't something like, "Hey, Nick, you've really been screwing this up and there's like, you know, if I can't walk back out of that and try to correct it." If they're like, "Nope, just, you know, want to do something different." Or in this person's case, it's like, "Hey, I've, you know, I've been trying and I just feel like maybe it's not a good fit anymore because I have been trying and I'm kind of getting

tired of doing this." like no hard feelings, but you know, if I'm unable to have the type of impact that I'd like to have, I'd like to go to a different team. And as a manager, I want to make sure that I can support people's growth. Now, this probably sounds kind of funny, right? Because like, why would I want to support someone who's like, "Hey, I'm going to leave your team. I'm going to do other Don't want to be here anymore." like why would I want to support that? And I need you to think about this from a manager's perspective. If I have someone who doesn't want to be on the team because they're disengaged and it's not something that I can work on with them to improve, right? If it's not something that was like, "Hey, Nick, I wish you would have done this better.

I wish we could have like if they're already beyond that and it sounds like in this person's case they're just looking for something different now. If I try to force that person to stay on the team, they're not going to be engaged. I'm going to have an employee that was operating at whatever level and that's going to continue to decline. inevitably they will leave. And if they don't, they're going to stay on the team and keep getting worse. I don't want that. I want my employees to be successful. Yes, it means more work. If they're going to leave my team, sure, that means I'm going to have to look for backfill. I'm going to have to go through that process. That's going to suck. Okay. But you know what's way worse? Having an employee on your team who doesn't want to be there every single day.

Having an employee that's completely checked out because they're like, I'm dreaming of doing something different. It's not this. That is so much worse. And like I said, odds are inevitably they will leave. So instead of me trying to resist that and trying to keep someone and having them have a shitty time and have crappy output, I'm going to support them. It only makes sense to me. And um that's why I said I realize it kind of sounds funny, but like that's in my opinion how it needs to happen. And unless you just want to have a a rough time for everyone, but this kind of takes being open and honest, right? like um I need to be able to have an open honest conversation with the person so that they can tell me what they're after like and all that kind of stuff so that I know like if it's something on me, if it's something that they just want to change for their own career, whatever.

So that's what I would suggest if you have a manager you can work with where that working relationship is good is just to be transparent and then say like here's the types of things I'm looking for. Um if you are sort of forthcoming and like I mean for you having some level of maturity that's not like having an instant expectation like hey because I told you about it I'm expecting a team change like tomorrow because if you want the support from your manager they have to go look for teams internally that are hiring or they might talk to you and say hey here's how you go find them right at Microsoft it would be like careers portal is open. that's the same portal that everyone can see online. Go check go check if there's teams hiring. And then if it was something that's more like a close by team, I could say, "Hey, like maybe I can talk to the manager for you or do you know the manager?

If not, maybe I can give you an intro and see if they're they're hiring." Right? So, I I would want to try and support them, but I think you want to have a conversation with your manager about what you're looking for, but then also not have this expectation that, you know, as soon as you say it, they snap their fingers and it happens. Um, you know, some type of transition period would be great. This is again why not leaving this kind of thing until it's a tipping point and you're like, "Okay, I need to get out instantly." When you feel like that, it's probably too late. But if you're like, "Okay, like kind of catching this early, kind of feeling like this isn't for me anymore, and I need to start looking," I would start that conversation sooner. What's going on with this road? Um, okay.

Now, if we flip this around, okay, you might have a manager that um you know, especially in this case where they're like, "Oh, like you know, you couldn't have the influence and stuff that you're hoping for." No, no, no. We can change that. We can change that. Like, no, no, no. Like, just stay. Um, we'll make it better. I promise. If you have a manager that's doing this and then doesn't actually take any action, uh, unfortunately, you're not going to get any support from your manager anyway. Okay. So, my point is that if you have a manager that's like that, you don't have anything to lose by bringing it up. Um, but keep that in mind that you might bring it up. And if they're not taking any action to to change um how the team culture and stuff is and influence that, then you're you you should be looking on your own anyway.

You're not going to get the support. Okay? Because if they will not take action, that's it. If you have a manager that is um I would say I don't know like an or something like bringing it okay this is going to sound like the worst case scenario right you bring it up to your manager hey um based on how the team and stuff's been going I feel like for a long time I've been trying to have some influence and uh trying to you know change and improve the software development life cycle here it's kind of just been frustrating and I feel like things haven't really moved and I I'm interested in kind of switching to another team. If you have a manager that hears that and then is trying to like defend it or put you down or, you know, anything that's not uh sort of helpful cuz in the one case, the first one I gave you, they're supporting you.

The second case is like their words are way louder than their actions and they're not actually supporting you. They're just kind of telling you what you want to hear. In this third case, they're just I don't know like basically making you feel like your job's at risk. If that's the case, your job was at risk anyway. And I I don't mean like because you were about to get fired. I mean your job was at risk because you weren't enjoying it. Your productivity is going to drop. Your engagement is going to drop. You need out. You've already acknowledged that you need out. if you have a manager that's a piece of crap and isn't going to support you on it, like again, you're on your own looking anyway. So, in all of these scenarios, I feel like you need to bring it up to your manager. And I think you just have to be able to temper your expectations based on on your working relationship with them and their style of management.

So, that's what I would recommend. Um, I don't I don't see any one of these scenarios, no matter what your manager's like, where you don't bring it up to them. It's just around what your expectations of that conversation are going to look like because um they're either going to support you outright, they're going to make it sound like they're going to change and nothing changes, in which case you're on your own, or you have a piece of crap manager who's an and they're not going to support you and they're going to be now they're going to make things worse for you or whatever. You're on your way out anyway. They weren't going to support you. They haven't been supporting you. their loss. It's not yours. So, I hope that helps. If you have questions that you want answered, please leave them below in the comments. I'm happy to make a video for you.

You can go to codeccommute.com and submit your questions anonymously or you can go to any social media platform and send a message to dev leader or just Nick Causantino on LinkedIn. Thank you so much for watching. If you found this helpful, please share it with your friends. Take care.